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Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11155	Posted - 2015.01.09 22:27:13 - [1] - Quote An AFK player cannot hurt you. By definition. The only damage he does is in the minds of the people who complain about it. What they want is not balance. What they want is to have their uncertainty removed, so they can carebear in complete safety. The answer to that should always be no. Cloaking devices and covert ops ships should remain unchanged so long as local chat remains an instant, 100% reliable source of intelligence. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11162	Posted - 2015.01.10 12:33:07 - [2] - Quote Mag's wrote: But here is the crux, you obviously know I'm there. Now read carefully, this is where it gets hard and you lose focus. What mechanic is showing you, that I'm in the system? The one that interacts with you and gives you that intel. Oh, oh, I know! raises hand Pick me, pick me! "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11163	Posted - 2015.01.10 12:37:57 - [3] - Quote Mag's wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Mag's wrote: But here is the crux, you obviously know I'm there. Now read carefully, this is where it gets hard and you lose focus. What mechanic is showing you, that I'm in the system? The one that interacts with you and gives you that intel. Oh, oh, I know! raises hand Pick me, pick me! Points at Mr Kaarous Aldurald. "Yes Kaarous, what is the answer please?" It is local chat? And, for extra credit, is it local chat in conjunction with the ability to set players blue and therefore immediately identify any and all potential threats via their lack of being blue? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11163	Posted - 2015.01.10 12:43:23 - [4] - Quote Mag's wrote: A star for you Sir. Now isn't it a little odd that those asking for cloaking nerfs, ignore the main issue? One would think balance would involve all the mechanics and change them together, to reach the best outcome. One would think that. But I believe that the goal of some here is not, in fact, actual game balance. Instead, it seems that their goal is to remove any uncertainty from their own activities, thereby drastically buffing their own playstyles. One could conclude that to be rather selfish. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11164	Posted - 2015.01.10 12:53:21 - [5] - Quote Ben Ishikela wrote: Mr Doctor wrote: Why wouldnt you just add a 1h cycle time to cloaks, maybe 2 for covert and give caps the trait of infinite cycle time. Supers would really be the only ones screwed by a 1h cycle so..... ^that. and no automatic reactivation. and to be reliable against bots, add a AntiBotCapture that needs to be completed every hour or Cloak fails. something like that. So long as they add exactly the same thing to sentry drones. You know, to prevent afk usage and bots. And stuff. Maybe if you fail to reactive them, the drones self destruct. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11165	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:32:05 - [6] - Quote Esmanpir wrote: Really? Really? Wow. Stealth bomber with a cyno? Can you activate a cyno while cloaked? Or activate anything while cloaked, for that matter? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11172	Posted - 2015.01.11 22:32:11 - [7] - Quote Corinne Avuli wrote: I think no one should get an advantage during their AFK time. No AFK mining (bot), no AFK Ratting (bot), no obvious harrassement. CCP already has you covered. No one can activate any other module while cloaked. While cloaked in a safe and afk, they might as well just be docked up for all that they can actually hurt you. Now, if you're suggesting that CCP should ever make any mechanical change based on how some people choose to react to the metagame... then you're completely wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11175	Posted - 2015.01.12 12:55:20 - [8] - Quote Corinne Avuli wrote: Always the same phrases. The cloak itself + the logged in player is causing trouble through willingly assured harrasment. "Mom! Jimmy's in my room!" Being in the same system as you is not harassment, by any definition. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11175	Posted - 2015.01.12 13:51:03 - [9] - Quote Corinne Avuli wrote: You being in the same room as me would be. You are not participating in a discussion you are just trolling the floor with one sentence posts. That was a two sentence post. And brevity is the soul of wit, or something along those lines. Quote: Keeping logged in, in a system, knowingly in a cyno-fitted ship, with no other reason to wait for attacking someone with a bigger fleet is just cheap and harassment. No, it is not. What part of "no one has any right to carebear in complete safety" do you fail to understand? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11359	Posted - 2015.01.21 13:04:51 - [10] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Cloak ships can: Do PI in the system, run remote markets, send ISK to people or recieve it and settle contracts. What the hell are you talking about? Literally ANYONE logged into the client can do that. Do you even play this game? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11363	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:56:54 - [11] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Nikk wrote: The PvE players have allowed their expectations of play to rise, up to the point where they can only be satisfied running maximum efficiency mining or ratting fitting schemes. How is this any different than PVP players? It's a pointless statement. Who would willingly reduce their efficency? You honestly dont get it or you are just trying to split hairs or something. PVE players have a habbit of wanting to remove any and every object and tactic that can cut into their isk/hr rather than adapt and take a hit to their income. And this is, and always has been, the root of all this crying about cloaks. The entitlement complex of some people who believe that EVE should only be an MMO when it benefits them, and a single player game the rest of the time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11365	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:18:29 - [12] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Nikk you're giving away your alt by having similar typing styles. We are not affiliated. Quote: Look simple truth of this all is. Lie of omission in 3, 2, 1... Quote: There is a flaw in cloak. For the most part it works fine but in situations like "AFK camping" it is and can be abused and it offers 100% immunity to any defensive actions of the people in the system with the camper. This is a flaw. It's not a flaw, when it is brought up that you deliberately ignored the fact that cloaking devices also prohibit you from taking any actual actions as long as they are engaged. Quote: I have however seen many arguments that show that AFK cloaking can be considered an issue and that some form of change would be good. And all of those things are from self interest carebears, who want to farm free money without risk. Such a thing should always be rejected out of hand. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11365	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:48:56 - [13] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Everyone on the forums is arguing from a point of their own self interest, and I am sure some that would prefer to get free isk with no risk, however just because you dislike that style of player, it does not mean that their concerns are invalid. My dislike of such a thing does not invalidate it, nor do I think that it would. What does invalidate is the constant agititating to be able to play an MMO like a single player game when it's convenient for them. If they really want this, why not just go play STO, where there is no PvP? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11381	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:56:59 - [14] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of *our home*. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens. The face of entitlement, ladies and gentlemen. It is not "your home". EVE belongs to everyone, not just the people who want to farm the AI all day long. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11382	Posted - 2015.01.23 05:05:13 - [15] - Quote Rowells wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of *our home*. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens. The face of entitlement, ladies and gentlemen. It is not "your home". EVE belongs to everyone, not just the people who want to farm the AI all day long. I'm sorry, what? It would be best summed up as #renterproblems. Basically, the person I quoted would rather be free to farm rats all day long, without ever having to worry about other people. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11383	Posted - 2015.01.23 09:51:32 - [16] - Quote Leannor wrote: A safe way to go afk, is to dock, or log off. A cloak should not be 'intended' and protected from balance for that reason. That's not why a cloak behaves as it does. It does so because it absolutely hampers your offensive options while it is active. When I can fire torpedoes through a cloaking device, then you can scan me through one. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11386	Posted - 2015.01.23 11:03:09 - [17] - Quote Leannor wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Leannor wrote: A safe way to go afk, is to dock, or log off. A cloak should not be 'intended' and protected from balance for that reason. That's not why a cloak behaves as it does. It does so because it absolutely hampers your offensive options while it is active. When I can fire torpedoes through a cloaking device, then you can scan me through one. Now, THAT should be possible! A cloak should not, either, be a shield. :) Sadly, we need to lock to be ble to fire ... another thing which, personally, I think is wrong So basically you don't want to play EVE, you want to play Elite: Dangerous. Or some other flight sim. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11386	Posted - 2015.01.23 11:46:59 - [18] - Quote Aredontis wrote: Rhavas wrote: Exactly. If it's your home, defend the entries like a wormhole corp does. Gonna try this one more time, just for you, because you seem "special": Null is NOT like wormholes, you can't just sit on the gates to keep people out. See, in null, people can light cynos and covert cynos, bridging in hundreds of others. This mechanic does not exist in W space. Apple meet Orange. If you don't let them into your system, they aren't there to light a cyno. Heck, you even have the wonderful foreknowledge of exactly where they will be coming from, unlike wormholes which open up in random spots. But asking for a one button solution to someone being cloaked in your system? That's just not how it works. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11386	Posted - 2015.01.23 11:53:55 - [19] - Quote Leannor wrote: no one is asking for a one-button-solution. sigh Just level field. Except you've already got it. No one who is cloaked can activate an offensive module. No one who is afk can even move. And local, your perfect intel tool, automatically lets you know if there is a potential threat. What more do you want besides something that invalidates cloaking devices existing in the first place? Because I've seen a whole lot of that proposed in this thread, and very little of anything even resembling a balanced mechanic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11386	Posted - 2015.01.23 12:01:25 - [20] - Quote Leannor wrote: What is the disadvantage is using the cloak for it's intended purpose? (read that carefully ... as your answer should not include 'well you can't fire', because, clearly, when you're cloaked that is no longer your objective, seeing as you are cloaked ergo secret, ergo, firing a weapon would mean you're no longer secret). The intended purpose of a covert ops cloaking device is to avoid being seen, and to sneak up on people. Since you can't be seen on grid, you are prevented from using or activating offensive or defensive modules, as well as target locking as that would be an unfair advantage. I reject your false narrative, by the way. Loss of module activation is in fact the disadvantage of a cloaking device, and is a fully appropriate one. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11410	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:22:09 - [21] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Nikks wrote: Perhaps they are able to place explosives in certain asteroids, which are triggered by close proximity of other ships. I have always been a fan of this idea. I think at some point mines did exist in game but were quickly removed. I am not sure why. It was before my time in game. They were a huge cause of lag, and because at the time they had not implemented a drone bandwidth system (the mines were drones, basically) people could in theory just spam them everywhere. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11410	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:33:55 - [22] - Quote Yeah, so in-space mines is probably never happening. I personally would like it revisited, but what with their recently going after drone mechanics to reduce server load (of which they are apparently big contributors), it seems highly unlikely. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11410	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:48:15 - [23] - Quote Rowells wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yeah, so in-space mines is probably never happening. I personally would like it revisited, but what with their recently going after drone mechanics to reduce server load (of which they are apparently big contributors), it seems highly unlikely. I think there might be opportunity to revisit them under mobile structures, but Im not sure how difficult that would be. I asked once during a ship rebalance thread, and the answer, while long, could be summed up as "hell no". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11410	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:58:53 - [24] - Quote Rowells wrote: What's missing with cloaks is the opportunity to interfere with them in any way. They also don't provide a benefit that's even close to approaching how useful a station or POS is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11410	Posted - 2015.01.23 23:01:39 - [25] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: I know this will never happen but what I would love. Cloak doesnt drop at all no matter how close you get. Cloaks can be detected. Either hunting or not hunting BUT certain ships, like recons or whatever can steal things. Slide up under another ship. Check their cargo with a scanner and snag some loot. I am at work and heading home but I can detail a style of cloak that I personally love. see what people think. it wouldnt take much effort to make either. I mentioned this to the other guy a page or so ago, but that is not EVE Online. That is Elite Dangerous, or some other flight sim. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11413	Posted - 2015.01.23 23:20:09 - [26] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Yes and no. A theft system could easily be brought into EVE. Just be another module. It could easily be brought into EVE, but it never will. Because then I don't even have to gank freighters to get their cargo. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11422	Posted - 2015.01.24 13:07:56 - [27] - Quote Rhavas wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aredontis wrote: Rhavas wrote: Exactly. If it's your home, defend the entries like a wormhole corp does. Gonna try this one more time, just for you, because you seem "special": Null is NOT like wormholes, you can't just sit on the gates to keep people out. See, in null, people can light cynos and covert cynos, bridging in hundreds of others. This mechanic does not exist in W space. Apple meet Orange. If you don't let them into your system, they aren't there to light a cyno. Heck, you even have the wonderful foreknowledge of exactly where they will be coming from, unlike wormholes which open up in random spots. But asking for a one button solution to someone being cloaked in your system? That's just not how it works. Aredontis: Yes, special in that I can actually think proactively. As can Kaarous, apparently. If you don't want AFK cloakers in your ratting system, pick one with few entrances and then guard them. Instead of posting on the forums how hard your life is because you can't have the feeling of total safety in your nullsec system. You want security? Work for it. Get a seboed interceptor on the gates in a system with as few gates as you can manage. Figure it out. You're a nullseccer, you have corpmates, right? It's basic logistics. Guard your entrances if you want to claim something as "yours". But then they can't be afk ratting. Which is the crux of it all. It's the exact same argument as an afk miner gives, that they should have safety without actually having to do anything. They're arguing for the supposed right to reap the benefits of playing the game, without actually doing so, and being safe to boot. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11423	Posted - 2015.01.24 22:43:32 - [28] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Jenn I am sorry but I am still having a very hard time taking your arguments seriously. You have made it clear that you feel the 100% safety of the cloak is perfectly ok and you want nothing to change that. And because you're just talking through your bias about this, you are ignoring that the cloak being unscannable is a benefit arising from all the disadvantages the cloak comes with. If it weren't unscannable, it would be a weak, halfassed mechanic indeed. Which is what you want, of course. Quote: However where I see the flaw in cloak is that the player cloaked has absolutely nothing that can remove them from a system once he/she is in that system. Nothing. Also not true. It just requires that you put the effort in to bait them and kill them. After that, if you let them back in, it's entirely your own fault. Quote: Leave to another system, stay docked and pursue other activities, or risk operating in the system. If they risk operating in the system, even the best combat tanked ship can fall prey to a hot drop. A person can do everything right and still lose in the end. Obvious false dichotomy. And perpetuating a victim mentality what's more. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11423	Posted - 2015.01.24 23:17:50 - [29] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: This is just junk fluff. Please show me one thing that I could use to threaten a cloaked pilot once they are in system. I already told you, bait them out and kill them. Quote: I dont really care how they got there. Which is part of why they have so much power over you in the first place, you refuse to acknowledge that prevention exists. Quote: As for the victim mentality. Nice try as some passive aggressive snip. If you wish to go this route, then feel free but if you look at this thread you will see I never once have stated I was so victim or that CCP must make some change cause this is all totally unfair. No, but I can read between the lines(and I'm not alone, either). When you keep on yammering about how "nothing, nothing, nothing" can be done about them.... you're just waving your self victimization for all to see. Just like every other "con" player in this thread. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11423	Posted - 2015.01.24 23:33:05 - [30] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Kaarous. You either have ignored what my argument is or dont understand it. On top of that you make assumptions that are just false and can be shown in my other posts. I have done neither. Your claim predicates on the concept that cloaking devices are broken, and require fixing. And since that's wrong, the rest of what you say is not relevant, whether I read it or not. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11423	Posted - 2015.01.24 23:46:23 - [31] - Quote Haywoud Jablomi wrote: Interesting line of thought, given that I have made no suggestions on how to change the function of the cloaking device. I didn't say you did. I said you have claimed that they require being changed. They don't. This "problem" exists, and has always existed, only in the minds of people who would rather not defend themselves. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11543	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:35:00 - [32] - Quote La'Xa wrote: Why would a single person, averse to risk or not, engage into the lowest income + highest risk of the 3, that's only made like that because of afk cyno cloakers? The only conclusion I can come to after reading this is that we need to nerf highsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11543	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:48:56 - [33] - Quote clipper shore wrote: we are talking about the disruption that an AFK cloaky player does in a system with the intention of and no other reanon than to cause that disruption. That's extremely myopic of you. This is not just your own personal gripe in a vacuum, you know. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11543	Posted - 2015.01.30 00:07:39 - [34] - Quote clipper shore wrote: If you don't have anythig constructive to say about the problem of AFK CLOAKERS then dont say anything It's not a problem, first of all. Second of all, the discussion touches on a number of different issues, local being chief among them. So no, you don't get to try and smother discourse, nor silence opposition to your selfish imperatives. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11547	Posted - 2015.01.30 13:41:03 - [35] - Quote Leannor wrote: Bet they're quaking in their boots. I know you meant that sarcastically, but judging by the contents of this thread, it's not an unfair assumption when taken seriously. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11599	Posted - 2015.02.01 10:07:03 - [36] - Quote Milla Goodpussy wrote: CCP rid the game of AFK Cloaky CAMPING.. that way we don't have to go thru this thread year after stinking year of the same endless debates. The easier thing to do would be to just forum ban the people who spam threads complaining about it. I mean, if the goal is just to stop the whining anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15294	Posted - 2015.11.30 13:15:08 - [37] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The "I refuse to be honest" defense coupled with a healthy dose of "I don't like it" with a thin veneer of "I don't get it" You're talking about yourself, right? Rarely have I seen anyone on these forums as devoted to self delusion and dishonest as you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15294	Posted - 2015.11.30 13:44:29 - [38] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: There is no feedback to be found because Fozzy is on record having said that afk cloaking is perfectly fine because it is disrupting null isk. Afk cloaking is fine for a number of reasons. Most of which were hashed out in the first six or seven pages. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15304	Posted - 2015.12.01 04:42:33 - [39] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Your posts all boil down to: Me! Me! Me! Me! Me! Me! You would not comprehend game balance if it literally hit you on the forehead. Quoting for posterity, and because it made me smile. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15307	Posted - 2015.12.01 04:52:23 - [40] - Quote It's exactly like the Freighter rebalance thread. They really do think they should get something for nothing. They are not capable of conceiving the fact that the game might be balanced, much less that it's already unabalanced in their favor. In their skewed minds, the game won't be balanced until they're perfectly bubble wrapped and no one can touch them. They genuinely think they should just get blanket buffs without any thought towards game balance. A more blind, selfish mindset I cannot imagine. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15310	Posted - 2015.12.01 05:03:31 - [41] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It's exactly like the Freighter rebalance thread. They really do think they should get something for nothing. They are not capable of conceiving the fact that the game might be balanced, much less that it's already unabalanced in their favor. In their skewed minds, the game won't be balanced until they're perfectly bubble wrapped and no one can touch them. They genuinely think they should just get blanket buffs without any thought towards game balance. A more blind, selfish mindset I cannot imagine. Agreed. A few dozen pages back I made a flip post about how a ratter earned 2 billion in a month, but lost a single T3 making his total ISK for the month 1.4 billion and Mike was all over it like stink on sh!t about how that was horrible. Me, netting 1.4 billion a month would be great, at the end of a year I'd be in a super carrier if I wanted one or have enough ISK to go on 5-6 deployments before having to rat again. It's almost like they think they should be immune to seeing red numbers on their wallet. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15312	Posted - 2015.12.01 06:45:44 - [42] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Stop dragging unrelated crap into a discussion of AFK cloaks and trying to justify them because other stuff is wrong. Discussing local chat is not unrelated to cloaking. Quote: Your tantrum about wanting something for free is baseless. It's not baseless at all, your entire post history is the basis. You're a selfish carebear who doesn't give a backflipping ** about game balance. Quote: PvE playsyles don't have anything here to give up. They have everything to give up. But since they're selfish like you, they think they should get to have their cake and eat it too. And the answer to that will always be no. Quote: Too bad it's a sandbox, and we all have different values. And your values are "screw the sandbox, screw other people's player freedom, only my playstyle matters" Selfish, like we've been saying. Quote:** It's not a fear of loss. It's nothing but that, no matter how what excuses you make or how you try to justify it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15312	Posted - 2015.12.01 06:53:00 - [43] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: That something for nothing we seem to want? That's just an evenly balanced gameplay not favoring predatory PvP. We don't want to be tied up in bubble wrap, we just don't like being served up as sacrificial lambs for your slaughter. More of your lies. Thanks to a decade of your whining, CCP has turned this game into that hugely favors carebears. You think the game mechanics are what make you nothing but worthless prey? No, that's the **** attitudes you refuse to change. The only reason you cucks are helpless is because you think you shouldn't have to defend yourselves. Your posts constantly demand more bubble wrap. Quote:** The game isn't slanted in favor of PvE pilots. Even the freighter thing was just trying to return balance rather than watch it slide ever further down the drain. See my point, Teckos? They are not even capable of realizing what game balance, or what it means. They think "balanced" means "freighters should never die in highsec", which is what they were all crying for in the freighter thread. They think "balanced" means "all carebear buffs, all the time" despite a decade long history of nothing but that. And do you know why? Because they refuse to accept what EVE is. This refusal makes them want to dictate game balance from only their own selfish perspective. It's all because they do not belong here, and refuse to admit it. You are so afraid of balance that you will fight anything that puts you at anywhere near the same risk as your target.[/quote] "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15312	Posted - 2015.12.01 06:54:17 - [44] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Just more of the usual blurf about how everyone not just like you should get out of the game. Untrue. Just how everyone like you should get out of the game. There's quite the distinction there, although in the depths of your self absorption you won't see it. Quote: You are a joke. A bad one we have ceased to laugh at. You reduce the quality of everything you are associated with. Heh, carebears always project. You and yours have been bring the quality of this game down for years upon years. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15314	Posted - 2015.12.01 07:24:09 - [45] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: No one said freighters should not die in hisec. You absolutely did. You said that in your ideal highsec, freighters should only get ganked if they are headed out to nullsec anyway. You shortly afterward claimed that gankers should either have to activate non existent killrights on a freighter, or lol, trick them into duelling or stealing from a can. That was you saying what you think highsec is supposed to be. Quote: It's unfortunate you can't discuss anything. You will just keep it up, dieasing every thread you post in until it's locked, or in this case they delete everything influenced by your vomit. There's that projection again. You really can't stop, can you? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15315	Posted - 2015.12.01 07:54:23 - [46] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: BTW I admit my ideas in the previous post may not be sufficient, but they provide a starting point for future iterations. I see this issue as a give and take...if we are to make cloaks less invulnerable then local and intel has to become more vulnerable. I see a refusal of this, aside from a solid argument, as nothing more than pure unadulterated rent seeking--i.e. seeking economic profits one is not entitled too. Hence why I am highly suspicious of the discussion from the outset. I rarely see the subject broached without said "rent seeking" being at the root of it. I'm perfectly happy to say "what problem?" so long as that remains the case. Right now, cloaks are a null factor, you can't effect the other guy, and barring shenanigans they can't easily effect you. (it can be done, of course, and has in the past, it's just tricky as hell) "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15317	Posted - 2015.12.01 09:35:20 - [47] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: People simply will not PvE in areas without Intel, as their only viable defense is proactive retreat. First of all, wormholes. Secondly, remember when you were trying to dishonestly claim this wasn't about risk aversion? Yeah, you kinda just copped to it being about nothing but risk aversion. All your justifications mean nothing, because like I said in the first post on the second page, this isn't about game balance, it's about you wanting to remove uncertainty, and you will n.e.v.e.r. get that, nor should you. If you can't live with uncertainty in your game, then you do not belong here. Quote: - You scream about nerfs for yourself when they represent nothing but balance "All the buffs to my playstyle=balance, and anything else isn't" ~Carebears. My God, you are the biggest hypocrite. Quote: -discussing the balance issues with afk cloaking was what this was supposed to be about. Completely, utterly a lie. Go ahead and read the first post again. I'll give you a hint though, the words "balance" and "issue(s)" are not found, save to precede the general topic as for discussion of the whole freaking thing. As always, you prove your complete, self serving dishonesty. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15317	Posted - 2015.12.01 09:47:26 - [48] - Quote You want to know what this thread is about, Mike? Despite your claim, that the existence of the thread at all somehow yields the point that a balance change is needed, the OP simply states that this thread serves as a focal point for the topics that would otherwise be locked for being redundant. That's it. There is no admission that there is a "balance issue", it's merely to focus discussion around this thread itself. That's still entirely up for debate, so you can't just claim it as fact. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15320	Posted - 2015.12.01 23:17:49 - [49] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But itGÇÖs hilarious seeing the anti-cloak group pretty much come down on the side of less risk for them and more risk for others. Of course, carebears are hypocrites and liars. "More effort for thee but not for me." ~Every carebear. And look, a bit lower down from yours we have Mike, who spent a whole page crying about how we need to stop talking about local because it's "off topic", and he immediately whines about cynos. They are very literally not capable of honesty. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15320	Posted - 2015.12.01 23:22:08 - [50] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: It's not about buffing anything. It's about reasonable gameplay options. You lie. It's about trying to remove any tiny bit of uncertainty, so you can carebear away without any worry at all. Quote: I refuse to play politics with this sort of discussion. LOL. That's all you ever do. Quote: The idea of looping in unrelated issues like isk sinks and faucets, or your problems with local in an attempt to make a blatantly broken mechanic seem reasonable is an age old tactic for muddying the waters and pushing agendas. And yet on this very page you are crying about cynos, by your definition an unrelated issue. You are the biggest hypocrite I have ever heard of. Cloaks are not "broken", blatantly or otherwise. They are in fact perfectly balanced. Quote: Intel as a whole is just a separate discussion entirely, like Isk Sinks. And cynos, hypocrite. Maybe if your side stopped lying between your teeth every single time this topic comes up, we might have a reasonable discussion. But carebears always lie, so we can't. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15322	Posted - 2015.12.02 12:34:41 - [51] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Ccp should not be securing space for me, but neither should they provide invulnerable tools for you to deny that security indefinitely. An afk cloaked player does not deny you anything. He cannot hurt you, by definition. Not only can he activate exactly zero modules, he isn't even at his keyboard. Make excuses all you want, what you want is an unbalanced buff to your safety via the removal of any uncertainty. Quote: I will say it again. PvE playstyles have nothing left to give up. You say it again, and you lie again. PvE playstyles have been getting buffed non stop for a straight decade, and it is long past time you learned what a nerf feels like. Cloaks are not going anywhere until local goes bye bye. You do not get to have certainty in null security space, and you are wrong for wanting it. Deal with it. Quote: In order to do anything at all you have to gut your income below high sec levels And despite his denials, it all comes down to "my isk/hr, waah!" What he wants, no matter what he tries to claim, is to be able to farm without any care or risk or uncertainty of any kind. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15327	Posted - 2015.12.02 23:45:56 - [52] - Quote Cidanel Afuran wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: I long, long ago took the "don't play here" option, and have not been back to null sec in years. It just wasn't fun. Then why in the ever loving blazes are you even posting in this thread? Because he feels entitled to lecture from a position of ignorance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15330	Posted - 2015.12.03 06:57:38 - [53] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: No, I don't care about ISK Except when you do, which is whenever it's convenient for your flip flopping arguments for more safety. Cloaks do not get touched until local is gone. Not "until gate cloak drops", pathetic piece of excuse that is, gone. Quote: but it's unbalanced that I get more reward for less risk or effort in high sec. And yet, anyone who suggests nerfing the unbalanced income of highsec will find you in his thread, tearfully crying about how unfair it is to nerf anything that can be done in total safety. It's almost like it's a running theme with you, where you think you deserve to be completely safe and suffer no consequences when making money. Quote: it's simply one player inflicting uncounterable loss on others. No. It's one player cloaked and afk in a system, and you cowering like a whipped dog because you get badfeels if you rat with anything not blue in local. Stop asking for the mechanics to facilitate you being a gutless toad. It will never happen. You are playing the wrong game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15330	Posted - 2015.12.03 07:12:10 - [54] - Quote Nah, you know what? Cloaks should not get touched even if they delete local from nullsec. It's not like it's worth breaking wormholes just to deal with the complaints of a few afk ratters who can't be asked to be at their keyboards. And it's not like wormhole players somehow magically stop being able to PvE when they have no local and the same cloak mechanics. (in fact, they're enormous bears) Sorry (totally not sorry) Mike, but you get the Wonka Prize on this one. You get nothing. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15331	Posted - 2015.12.03 07:28:42 - [55] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You are a joke. Carebears always project. In this instance, you are projecting the fact that you know full well that you aren't taken seriously by pretty much anyone who actually talks to you for more than fifteen minutes. Best of luck with that. In the meantime, cloaks aren't magically going to become "broken" just by you repeating your tired old lies over and over again. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15331	Posted - 2015.12.03 10:07:15 - [56] - Quote Jerghoul wrote: Cloaks are broken in nullsec specifically and only because they impact negatively on player activity levels. Cloaks don't impact activity levels at all. At the keyboard or not, they are one player logged in no matter what. Cowardice and risk aversion impacts activity levels. And I say, if they would rather not play the game at all when they can't be 100% safe in their afk ratting, then good riddance. Any activity that generates assets into the game world(meaning, any and all PvE) should either be subject to risk, or it should stop existing completely. But the only way they can be that risk averse to begin with is that they know the cloaker is in the system, thanks to local. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15331	Posted - 2015.12.03 15:23:24 - [57] - Quote Jerghoul wrote: Null-sec cloaky AFK camping and counter camping are specifically used to deter players from logging on and use the cloak-cyno combination to achieve that end. That's not what it's for. And I say this as someone who done a TON of cloaky camping, and been paid to do it. Quote: A game mechanism (cloak+cyno potential) that encourages players not to play is a ****-poor game mechanic. By this logic, you must positively hate Crimewatch, huh? Somehow though, I bet that isn't the case. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15337	Posted - 2015.12.04 01:16:58 - [58] - Quote Jerghoul wrote: The purpose is to require cloaked ships to actively resupply regularly. So, to completely defeat the intent of the cloaking device to begin with, then. Because cloaks are intended to let you operate behind enemy lines or in hostile territory for a long time, until an opportune strike is possible. Quote: I do not see how that could cause undue hardship. Of course you don't. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15337	Posted - 2015.12.04 01:20:31 - [59] - Quote Jerghoul wrote: Null-sec AFK cloaky camping is a sov war technique used to target activity levels. Stop repeating this lie, or start getting reported for trolling/spamming. I'm done with this carebear bullshit. You do not get to just repeat the same bullshit and expect people to approach this as though it were the truth. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15337	Posted - 2015.12.04 01:36:05 - [60] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Of course you are good with it. It gives you everything you want at a cost so negligible you are happy to pay it. Screw the other guy, he is not your playstyle and counts as sub-human destructible terrain. And of course you don't like it, it has a slight negative effect on your desire to rat while completely afk in nullsec space. Quote: Any effort to change it, no matter how light the impact on other uses of the cloak Nothing that you or that NPC alt sock puppet have suggested can be categorized as "light". You both have suggested basically gutting cloaking devices completely to assuage your rabid risk aversion. But you always betray the only real problem here. You're scared because local lets you know there is a red around. Simple solution, remove local. And the funny is, that's probably what's going to happen anyway. You might get a deployable to put it back with a sixty second delay or something, but your perfect intel tool is going to die in the near future, probably after they finally get around to deleting off grid boosts. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15337	Posted - 2015.12.04 01:41:17 - [61] - Quote Jerghoul wrote: Obviously all we are doing here is sharing our opinions. You and Mike certainly are not. Both of you are just repeating a lie over and over again, expecting people to approach this as though your premise was true or valid. And it is neither. Quote: I can accept that you may not have experienced null sec cloaky camping (specifically cloak + cyno potential) used as a way to increase Eve player attrition (get people to not play eve), but you should humour the possibility that it indeed does take place. Or, my experience suggests that your claim is a lie, and I'm not going to humor a damned thing. But thanks for basically admitting to what I was saying up above. Quote: A game mechanism (cloak + cyno potential) used to increase player attrition is a flawed game design feature. And none exists here. Quote: I think we can all agree that increasing Eve player attrition is an undesirable effect. Not as a whole, no. Some people simply don't belong in this game. And that includes anyone who refuses to play the game if they have more than zero risk. Screw that and screw them. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15337	Posted - 2015.12.04 01:49:14 - [62] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Karous, it probably would be more constructive if you considered things more for their merits instead of focusing on whatever you imagine might be posters' internal motivations. I am considering it based on it's merits(lack thereof), but I refuse to ignore the nonsense tactic you two are using either. Your claim has no merit. His claim is the same. Repeating it does not magically make it true, or your basic points any less wrong. The moon landing actually happened, aliens did not kill JFK, and cloaks do not exist to drive down activity. (only cowardice does that, so maybe we should nerf the thing that enables you to act like such chickens?) Heck, you even admitted that's what you are doing, you expect people to "humor" your lie and shift the discussion around it. And the answer to that is no. You two can either discuss the facts, or keep spamming the same cut and pasted nonsense and get reported for it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15337	Posted - 2015.12.04 02:00:54 - [63] - Quote Jerghul wrote: null sec AFK cloaking is a sov war techique used specifically to increase Eve player attrition (get people to not play Eve). No, it's not. The only thing doing that is risk aversion and cowardice. And the only thing enabling that is local. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15342	Posted - 2015.12.04 05:56:47 - [64] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Making ISK isn't a crime. We have been over many times how it's not about max ISK/hr, or really ISK at all. You've claimed that anyway. But it just keeps right on coming back to it, that you want to be able to generate income with zero risk, which is why you hate cloaking devices. Quote: It's about having an affect on active players from complete and uncountable safety. An afk cloaked player can have exactly zero effect on you. He cannot activate modules, and even if he could he's not at his keyboard. So how is he effecting you? Oh wait, I know... because you can see him in local. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15343	Posted - 2015.12.04 06:10:08 - [65] - Quote Jerghul wrote: So the consensus then is to ask devs to review if null-sec AFK camping impacts on Eve player attrition? Why would they need to? Surely if you repeat that lie a few more times, it will start being at least a little bit true. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15343	Posted - 2015.12.04 06:16:03 - [66] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: The more you guys whine, the more I'm convinced the nay-sayers were right all along: what you really want, is a PvP flag you can flip off. Or a separate PvE server. Of course that's what they want. The ultimate goal of every carebear is Trammel, and eventually the death of this game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15346	Posted - 2015.12.04 10:52:12 - [67] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Jerghul wrote: So the consensus then is to ask devs to review if null-sec AFK camping impacts on Eve player attrition? No. Because AFK cloaking has been part of the game for as long as I've been playing, and player attrition was never a serious issue in 2008-2012. Fozzie is already on record saying cloaks are fine, since its used to disrupt ISK making. CCP acknowledged the issue, and then said "screw PvE", essentially. More like they said "Screw people who think they deserve safety or lack of uncertainty in null security space." With which I wholeheartedly agree. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15346	Posted - 2015.12.04 11:23:04 - [68] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Right... Because working toward the goal of owning space is surely not at all something they want to have happen... The moment you try and obfuscate like that, to try and drag more and bigger stuff into your argument, is when I know you're desperate. As though owning space at all is somehow rendered worthless if you can't afk rat in total safety? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15347	Posted - 2015.12.04 13:28:32 - [69] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: What it boils down to, is players risk aversion spawned from the tool that is local and that people feel a misplaced entitlement to go about profiting in eve with no risk whatsoever. If we need further evidence this is a nullbear problem, then consider lowsec. I've not seen a single soul complain of a "cloaky camper" in there or heck even NPC 0.0 yet loads and loads of PvE happens there too. In fact the only people complaining about this being a problem are the anomaly squatters. I can't like this post hard enough. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15347	Posted - 2015.12.04 13:31:04 - [70] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Have you not run out of troll ** yet? Projection again, from the man who has spent weeks trying to argue for freighters to be invincible and for the "right" to afk rat in nullsec with no consequences of any kind. Don't you get tired of it? All you have to do is finally admit that you are playing the wrong game, and it all goes away. Quote: The only afk totally safe thing in space is a cloaked ship. And yet again, you lie. Quote:** If you cannot enforce or control anything in an area, you don't own it. The game rules work rather differently. Thanks for rolling back your previously absurd claim though, this might be the first time I've ever gotten you to admit to a lie. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15349	Posted - 2015.12.04 13:58:21 - [71] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: [ Local does nothing to guarantee any form of safety. LOL. You aren't even trying to make sense anymore, are you? Local is one of the best tools for safety that exists in this game. Quote: It's not local. It's not risk aversion. That's all it is. Whatever lies, excuses, or flimsy justifications you try and conjure up, it all stems from those two. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15349	Posted - 2015.12.04 14:18:22 - [72] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Not balanced. Wrong, and a purely self serving interpretation at that, so doubly wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15349	Posted - 2015.12.04 14:41:47 - [73] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: I fail to see what bubbles have to do with afk cloaking. Especially since his tactic earlier was "Waah, stop talking about local because that has nothing to do with cloaks!" (while hypocritically crying about cynos the whole time) He's spinning around in circles like a puppy. Switching from argument to argument, no matter how often he contradicts himself. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15349	Posted - 2015.12.04 15:05:44 - [74] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The cloaker is still projecting his threat on the system and building frustration in those who would avoid or hunt him. A cloaked player can project no threat, they cannot activate any modules. An afk player can project no threat, they can do even less. What you are here for, spewing your entitlement all over the thread, is to try and remove any uncertainty from your disgusting carebearing. And you will never get that. Not now, not ever. You might as well just hurry up and quit already, you're completely incompatible with what EVE Online is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15351	Posted - 2015.12.04 23:17:38 - [75] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I feel no shame in defending my view. You really should. All you've done is prove that you don't belong here. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15351	Posted - 2015.12.04 23:28:54 - [76] - Quote Jerghul wrote: You don't have to buy it. I merely want Devs to examine data on player attrition in null sec systems targeted by enduring cloaky camps and draw their conclusions from that. It's almost like he thinks that chasing people out of nullsec is not intentionally in the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.05 13:45:01 - [77] - Quote Jerghul wrote: An afk cloaky camper (with an implicit cyno) can remove content in a system for days, weeks, months, (or hell, why not) years. No, they cannot. They can't do anything, activate any module while cloaked. The only thing that removes content is the kind of cowardice that makes you refuse to play the game at all unless you have zero risk. And CCP should never change one thing about the game for that reason. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.05 14:20:16 - [78] - Quote Jerghul wrote: I think my point on "implicit" as part of the core issue explains why not activating modules while cloaked is not pertinent to the argument. Actually, that's an attempted deflection at something that is very relevant to the argument. See, what you're trying to say is that, to you, it absolutely does not matter what his capabilities are or aren't. You cannot stand the uncertainty. You're saying that facts don't matter, just how you feel about it. And you're also saying that some part of this game needs to be drastically altered just because of your feelings. It is not possible to be any more in the wrong than that in a game balance discussion. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.05 14:23:43 - [79] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: He knows the issue I know what you claim is the issue. But you're wrong, and a liar besides. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.05 23:23:20 - [80] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: But to be immune to interaction entirely... Not balanced. Except that is completely untrue. The side making money afk is demanding that they should have less uncertainty in their game. Like always, carebears say "more effort for thee but not for me." And you've even had the gall to say that you should have to give up absolutely nothing in exchange for ruining cloaking devices. Heck, half the suggestions in the recent parts of this thread would ruin cloaks completely, especially in wormholes. You do not have the right to demand that parts of this game be irrevocably broken because you're too chicken to rat with a neut in local. And that's the only problem, you are literally asking that no one be allowed to make you feel insecure. Too. Bad. You know why cloaks can't be found easily? Because that is the benefit they get for their inherent weaknesses, both of the mod itself and their ship classes. If you ruin cov ops cloaks, you have to rebalance the ship lines of every single thing that can fit them. Cloaks are already balanced. Everywhere. But because you think you're entitled to rat afk in an anom, you want to claim that they're broken for nullsec. They are not. Local is broken by allowing you so much safety in nullsec. If anything needs to change, it's that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.05 23:28:23 - [81] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Its more a question of accepting that null sec afk-cloaky camping may negatively effect Eve player retention and think it fine that the developers look into it. I can, with as much or more validity, say that highsec missions and mining negatively effect EVE player retention. (And I'd probably be right, given CCP's own numbers on the matter) And since highsec has more population, the effect on retention would be decidedly more pronounced. So should we have CCP "look into" deleting highsec? But of course you'll try to handwave that away. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.06 03:54:30 - [82] - Quote So, you're openly admitting that you have no proof of any of your claims? And you expect CCP to do anything based entirely on your suppositions? Your wild guessing? Your opinionated, self serving claims? The sheer freaking hubris. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.06 04:06:10 - [83] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Like all of us here, I come to the table armed with opinion fuelled by anecdotal evidence. Heh, don't make false equivalencies. Your agenda driven suppositions are not sufficient reason for them to do anything. Nor are Mike's repeated, tearful entreaties that him having any risk equates to a game imbalance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.06 04:13:47 - [84] - Quote See, you, I and anyone else can "claim" whatever we want about sub numbers, unsubs, and all that ****. But absolutely nothing you say creates any kind of imperative for study on CCP's part. First of all, they already track unsubs and the reasons for such. And they have repeatedly told a number of people to get bent for peddling precisely this kind of alarmism. (Falcon is on record for doing that a lot recently, in fact) Not only will they do nothing, they should do nothing. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15352	Posted - 2015.12.06 04:17:36 - [85] - Quote Jerghul wrote: I am not sure what ulterior motives you might be suggesting I have. Not ulterior at all, you and Mike have both stated your goals. See my post above. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15357	Posted - 2015.12.06 12:42:49 - [86] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I have been around for a very long time myself. EVERYONE I have ever seen leave the game cited the silly pvp mechanics as the reason. Selection bias, or just your usual outright dishonesty. Of course if you hang around with nothing but other bloated carebears, all you'll hear is that PvP is the reason why anyone quits. CCP themselves disagree with you however. In fact, they called it a "myth" that PvP in this game negatively effects new player subscriptions. I can't imagine a more thorough condemnation of your claims than that. And since I already know that you are almost pathologically unable to tell the truth, I will take the developer's word over yours. Quote: What you should be lobbying for is not more, and more lopsided, ways to force people to play as your targets. Oh, quite incorrect. This game has had non consensual PvP snipped away a bit at a time for years, and player subs have fallen commensurately. It's long past time that CCP stops pursuing known policies of failure, and swings the pendulum the other way for once. Quote: The dumbest thing about the defense of cloaks in their current condition is the argument that it's needed because otherwise you would be hunted and destroyed, and then the locals will just go back to what they wanted to do in the first place. That's not dumb at all. It's suggesting that stealth be viable at all. What you want is for it to be unviable, so you are never surprised and never have any uncertainty. You're basically asking for the removal of non consensual PvP in freaking nullsec. Quote: You came for PvP, and got PvP. Not all PvP is shooting fat, defenseless ships, nor should it realistically be that way past one or two targets of opportunity. And here again you prove that you do not belong here. "targets of opportunity" and "fat, defenseless ships" are EXACTLY what cloak ships are supposed to be killing, and pretty much nothing else. Cov ops ships are inherently weaker than most other ships of their class in and of themselves, and the cov ops cloak is deliberately intended to allow people to strike targets of opportunity. I mean, come the ** on. You are literally admitting that you want cloaks to not work as intended, to satisfy the e-honor you're using as a false flag. Guess what, chuckles? Cloaks are supposed to promote that kind of behavior. Quote:** Everything you say about what should be the risk to PVE players is true of their hunters as well. 100% false. Risk vs reward applies solely to activities that generate assets into the game world. Any and all PvE should be subject to risk or it should not exist. PvP content has it's risk determined by the actions of the respective participants. You also totally do not understand cloaks. Cloaking devices are probably the most balanced module concept in this game. You disappear from grid, and barring collisions you cannot be effected by other players. In exchange, you can activate no modules. (and for cov ops ships, you take a fairly hefty stat penalty, especially the frigates) You can have as much effect on the grid as the grid can have on you. Less, in truth. The mechanics of cloaks are perfectly balanced right now. But you don't want balance, in fact you hate the very concept of it. What you both are asking for is a deliberate imbalance in your favor. And you're asking for it for purely meta reasons, completely ignoring the facts and realities of both the game at large and the mechanics of cloaking devices. It is not possible to be more wrong than you are. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15358	Posted - 2015.12.06 13:12:40 - [87] - Quote Anyone else starting to wonder if maybe Mike was ever an N3 renter? I've done just about all the shenanigans this game has to offer, and I never once got better tears than when I was cloaking their renters for eight months. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15358	Posted - 2015.12.06 13:25:04 - [88] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: No, it's outright invulnerability. No, it's not. For once in your blighted post history, be honest. Quote: Local isn't a defense, it simply allows opportunity to take defensive action. So it's a defense. Stop trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Not only is it a defense, it's simultaneously the most powerful source of intel and safety this game has to offer besides outright being docked. Quote: The cloaker can hunt his target, provide intel to any allies, and knows as much as can be known before making any decisions or initiating his attack. That is what cloaks are literally designed for. Stop asking that they be made useless for their intended purpose. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15358	Posted - 2015.12.06 13:35:00 - [89] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Hopefully you will one day learn the difference between a lie and a differing opinion. I already know a lie when I see it. When you say "I don't want to cripple cloaks", you are lying, because your suggestions would cripple cloaks. When you say "I don't oppose ganking", you are lying, because your suggestions would drastically reduce ganking. You. Are. A. Liar. You can try and bluster around it all you want, but it's clear to anyone who takes the time to read the tripe you post on this forum. Quote: First you will have to learn that the other people around you are real, and not just there for our personal amusement. People? Certainly. Players? Nope. Other players are made of pixels, and their value lies entirely in what they do or do not do. Quote: I have never once posted to remove non-consensual PvP. One of the greatest lies ever told on this forum. You're giving Infinity Ziona a run for his money at this point. Quote: You just don't like it when I suggest the non-consent be placed on you rather than your target. "more effort for thee but not for me." ~Carebears. Of course you, lacking in any understanding of how this game is supposed to be, always suggest totally one sided nerfs to anything that enables non consensual PvP. You did it before, you're doing it now, and when you pick a new carebear crusade you will do it again. Whatever you claim(because you're a liar), you are against non consensual PvP at the conceptual level. And that is easily seen in your post history. To claim otherwise is ludicrous. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15358	Posted - 2015.12.06 14:04:48 - [90] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Kaarous, seriously... Where do you get that crap. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=Mike%20Voidstar Quote: That "More effort for thee and not for me" line is priceless, coming from someone supporting the 'effort' of afk cloaked camps being appropriate against the eternal vigilance of actively playing fleets. No, it's addressed to someone who thinks they are entitled to not have any uncertainty in sovereign nullsec. And, as far as "effort" goes, the equation is not in your favor. One the one side, we have the cloaked player. On the other side, we have the person who wants to rat afk. But this side is also demanding to generate resources with no risk and no uncertainty. Unfortunately for them, since risk vs reward is a thing, their demands are inherently wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15358	Posted - 2015.12.06 14:10:25 - [91] - Quote Yeah, he was definitely an N3 renter. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15358	Posted - 2015.12.06 23:01:49 - [92] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Jerghul wrote: The issue we should be discussing is what might be the least intrusive intervention we can devise. 1) Remove local. But you won't accept that because "risk" so... 2) Cloaked players do not appear in local. Issue resolved all uses of cloaking preserved. Although doubtless not to the satisfaction of the risk averse bears. Of course they'll cry about it. Their basic complaint is a huge false flag. "Waah, we can see them in local!" Okay, so we'll remove them from local. "Waah, we have ANY RISK AT ALL!" ... then why are you playing EVE to begin with? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15363	Posted - 2015.12.06 23:22:53 - [93] - Quote Jerghul wrote: I think the argument is more that there should be an mechanism for enabling non-consensual PvP with cloaked ships. There already are. Mike just can't be asked to put that effort out. Which makes sense, considering he's constantly arguing for afk ratting, afk mining, and afk hauling. Here's the thing though. You absolutely do not get anything that denies the cloaked ship his right to target selection. That is the only point of the cloaking device in the first place, and you do not get to argue for invalidating it's intended design purpose. TL;DR? Grow a pair and bait him, decloak and catch him on the gate before he gets imbedded(you know, actually defend your space instead of just afk ratting all day) or ignore him. Quote: I quite liked the potential of my suggestion. Your suggestion would basically cripple the whole point of cloaking devices. I suspect you know that full well. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15363	Posted - 2015.12.06 23:24:41 - [94] - Quote Jerghul wrote: He is not invulnerable to the unquantifiable, implicit threat you represent. And that's a meta concern, that doesn't have the slightest thing to do with game balance. Stop crying about a limitation you choose to impose on yourself. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15364	Posted - 2015.12.06 23:31:27 - [95] - Quote Jerghul wrote: There is nothing in my suggestion that impacts on a cloaked ships right to chose targets. Aaaaaand you're trolling. Thanks for playing. Quote: All it does is create windows where a ship occassionally needs to drop its cloak to replenish it at any number of convenient locations. Why don't you just suggest they explode outright? The whole point of cloaked ships is to reward patience with the ability to attack targets of opportunity. Your change would cripple cloaking devices on every level, in every part of space. There are not enough languages to say no in. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15366	Posted - 2015.12.07 12:29:42 - [96] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Boy are you risk adverse. Suggesting that cloaks work as intended does not qualify. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15368	Posted - 2015.12.07 12:40:55 - [97] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Removing local is as one sided agenda driven nonsense as the insane timer + recovery on structure mechanic he is proposing. It's not, and it's far more likely to happen than CCP deciding to arbitrarily ruin cloaking devices. The only reason you can see the cloaker to cry about him is because local gives you an unreasonable advantage in terms of intel. If that goes away, not only can you no longer see the cloaker, but he can't see if there is anyone to pester without going and looking for himself. It's very literally the most balanced solution to the supposed problem(which is why you hate it). Ups the barrier of effort for everyone instead of just one side, effects both sides equally, and incentivizes active gameplay for both sides. Quote: It works for wormholes, but wormholes aren't exactly the most populated or popular place in EVE. Wormholes actually have an excellent population density, and activity level for how many people are in there. IMO, it is the ideal EVE Online gameplay, were POSes not such a pain in the ever loving ass anyway(bringing the activity barrier up immensely high). But Citadels won't require fuel in and of themselves, so if we can avoid Sort Dragon nerfing anything else about wormholes with his flow of tears, they will be sitting pretty in the future. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15368	Posted - 2015.12.07 12:53:05 - [98] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: They should provide a degree of safety, not total safety forever until you decide otherwise. The problem is not with cloaking devices. They are working as precisely intended, by rewarding patience with the ability to attack a target of opportunity. If they didn't do that they would be broken, and require a full rebalance of every cov ops capable ship in the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15369	Posted - 2015.12.07 13:22:47 - [99] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Making you move around a bit and not be afk does not affect your ability to select targets. Heh, handcuffing them to recharging on a gate damn sure does, actually. In fact everything you've suggested thus far defeats the whole point of a cloaking device. And let's not get started on Jergens, if they did what he wanted they might as well just delete every cov ops ship and module from the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15369	Posted - 2015.12.07 13:28:42 - [100] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Why should you ever STOP taking action to defend yourself? Because local tells you that you can do so. To suggest the 100% free and perfect intel isn't a factor in defence work is utterly nonsensical. If you do not have local, how do you know a cloaker is there? Answer: You do not. You never do. Ever. So one must take action to protect oneself constantly. As it should be. I know, it's weird at first but actually you get used to it quite quickly. Death becomes the cost of doing business in dangerous space. Again as it should be. Exactly this. Local replaces the need to use d-scan, among other things(such as watching your gates), as a tool to defend yourself. It is literally the most powerful defensive AND intel tool in the game, and you don't have to do a damned thing to get it. That is broken, and it does not belong in nullsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15370	Posted - 2015.12.07 13:46:57 - [101] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I suggest that the safety be degradeable over time so that you can't stay afk forever. You know what? I'll go ahead and bite. List out your current suggestion, in detail. You've flip flopped so many times in this thread that I'm not going to bother going back twenty pages to whatever it is you might have said. Let's see this supposedly balanced suggestion of yours. I'm certain it won't be completely one sided either. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15370	Posted - 2015.12.07 13:52:16 - [102] - Quote I love carebears. "Staying awake = effort" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15370	Posted - 2015.12.07 13:55:25 - [103] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You want to discuss different arrangements for intel, then start a thread on intel. This is the appropriate thread to discuss it as it relates to the balance of cloaking devices. You don't get to dishonestly silence disagreement that easily. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15372	Posted - 2015.12.07 14:58:36 - [104] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: All of that is why you start with a high degree of safety where the enemy has to check false positives if they suspect cloaked ships. They don't know which is you. If they have a clue at all then you have broken cloaks, which exist to reward patient hunting by enabling surprise attacks against targets of opportunity. I'll ask for a second time. List out your suggestion in detail. I want to see it all in one post, not just snippets here and there. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15373	Posted - 2015.12.07 15:24:01 - [105] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I don't believe you don't genuinely see the issue, it's just that it benefits you so much you would do anything to keep it that way. Oh my God the projection. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15374	Posted - 2015.12.07 15:33:30 - [106] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: I don't believe you don't genuinely see the issue, it's just that it benefits you so much you would do anything to keep it that way. Oh my God the projection. Eh? Nothing in my suggestion prevents me from being actively hunted at any time. You cannot say the same. You are just plain wrong here. I don't believe you don't genuinely see the problem with your suggestions, it would just benefit you so much that you will do or say anything to break the game in your favor. Hopefully that's not too subtle for you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15375	Posted - 2015.12.07 15:50:03 - [107] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I am purely shocked at your dogmatic adherence. You are going to defend the eternal perfect safety of someone who just wants to protect their carrier from being hunted, because it's too valuable to risk logging in. Actually, no, I just don't want to give a gigantic nerf to supers and wormhole players because you're too dumb/stubborn to accept that cloaks are already perfectly balanced. But then, I never expect any honesty from carebears. Just lies and spin. Oh, and the occasional admission that they support irl death threats against PvP players, something you're also guilty of. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15375	Posted - 2015.12.07 15:52:12 - [108] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Sorry, forgot your narcissism prevents following along with other peoples words. And here we have even more projection. Quote: With my suggestion cloaking starts with a high degree of safety and gets degraded over time by the active efforts of hunters. Your suggestion breaks several things to solve a non problem. Said non problem? "Waah, I can't rat afk if there's a non-blue in local!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15375	Posted - 2015.12.07 16:06:45 - [109] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I said they were unreasonable if your goal is PvE. At that point you just go to high sec for less effort, less ISK, and better rewards. Then go to highsec. You don't belong in any part of the real game anyway, you've proven than more than once. But the "Waah, having to bother to defend myself is unreasonable!" is no excuse for anything but nerfing highsec income into the ground. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15376	Posted - 2015.12.07 16:08:26 - [110] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: Because I never said those things were too much effort. I said they were unreasonable if your goal is PvE. And there we have it. Of course. Their one and only goal is risk free carebearing, no matter what they have to break to get it. They will sacrifice the game itself if they have to, say anything, do anything to justify ruining this game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15376	Posted - 2015.12.07 16:19:12 - [111] - Quote Jerghul wrote: You would have to bin local completely. In nullsec, certainly. It would make sense from a lore perspective as well, since with the whole "empires losing their grasp" thing they've got going on, the NPC groups stop being able to support the gate network that makes local a thing to begin with. Quote: Otherwise a cloaked ship (that would still retain its invulnerability to unsolicited PvP) They're not invulnerable, and to say they are is a lie. Regardless, if local were deleted, they would have to actively search the system to know whether there was a target in the area or not. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15376	Posted - 2015.12.07 16:59:15 - [112] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: He just wants to make sure any and all risk is purely one sided. Hardly, that's just your strawman to try and dismiss criticism. Why else would I propose something that makes it harder to actively hunt people? Removing local from nullsec hugely hampers roaming gangs. Quote: All the blurf about how every freighter should explode at his mere I'll intent if not escorted because it's a capital ship just evaporated. Why? Because I don't think your whining justifies completely breaking cloaking devices? Quote: Every snide remark about PvE players just wanting to protect their ISK at the expense of his own playstyle You mean, exactly like you two have been arguing for? You've even gotten caught admitting that this is about nothing more than isk/hr numerous times. Try and project all you want, you've been true to dishonest carebear form the whole time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15376	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:13:15 - [113] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Truly hilarious stuff. You are out in the wind on this one. Tell some more direct lies. Spread more fertilizer and maybe you can grow some honesty. I doubt it, but you might. Now, folks, this is what flustered looks like. He knows that, after how dishonest he was in the last thread, that if I show up, I'll discredit him immediately. So since he knows he cannot defend his hideous posting record, he tries to attack me instead by projecting his own faults onto me and accusing me of them. Quote: Such a tiny risk directed at you, and suddenly 100% safety is ok, and everything is fine. Cloaks are not 100% safety, liar. You and Jergens have been repeating that lie over and over in the thread, but anyone who has actually used cloaking devices in any real capacity, and I remind you that you have admitted that you have not, knows it to be a complete, utter lie. You're seriously incapable of telling the truth, aren't you? Quote: No local makes it harder to hunt? Because coming into the system and hitting Dscan is soooo hard. And here he backtracks over his own statements in the thread, in which he claims that merely staying awake at all through your automatic drone ratting counted as significant effort. Never expect consistency, intellectual or otherwise, from this man. He is the very worst kind of person. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:17:20 - [114] - Quote I'm about ready to suggest that old Mike here has never actually been in a wormhole. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:27:06 - [115] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Kaarous Please explain to me how a cloaked ship in a system is vulnerable to unsolicited PVP. Please explain to me why you think the decision to decloak is entirely up to them. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:28:09 - [116] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I'm about ready to suggest that old Mike here has never actually been in a wormhole. You are about ready to suggest anything at all that might look like you had a shred of credibility left. Tell us some more lies. Your last one had at least three direct lies. Not just twisting, exaggeration, or hyperbole... Out and out pants on fire lies. Or tell us more how it's your ship that needs 100% safety to be able to do its job, but everyone else needs to be vulnerable or you can't take it. Again with the projection. He knows that anyone reading this thread will know him for a liar, and desperate for a way out, he latches on to accuse me of his own faults. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:41:39 - [117] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You want a mechanic that makes you safer. No, that's just you, bleating to degrade a working mechanic so that you can rat without any risk. We want cloaks to stay the way they are, since they're balanced at present. But then, more than anything else, carebears hate balance, because in a balanced game they will always lose, since they aren't real players. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:43:53 - [118] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: In part because the ruleset ensures both attackers and defenders are at risk and fights less one sided. And now we know for sure that he's never been in a wormhole. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:46:53 - [119] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Name one way of reliably decloaking a cov ops more than 20k from any object other than pilot error/incompetence. Look how he tries to give a loaded question. Game balance is not subject to your bullshit qualifications. There is no way to do what you say, and that is both right and proper, and working as intended. If you could reliably decloak a cov ops pilot from that distance, you would have completely, utterly broken cloaks at the conceptual level. They would very literally not work as intended. Which is of course what you want, you want them to be ruined. You aren't fooling anyone with your lies and dishonesty. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 17:49:17 - [120] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: In part because the ruleset ensures both attackers and defenders are at risk and fights less one sided. And now we know for sure that he's never been in a wormhole. Rofl, don't you have some more high sec freighter banking to go do. Oh so risky.... "Waah, non consensual PvP still exists!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 18:28:32 - [121] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: So... That ship would in fact be 100% safe Wrong. Just because you don't have a one shot, no thought way to decloak anyone within 20k does not mean he's "100% safe". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15377	Posted - 2015.12.07 18:29:57 - [122] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Not when you already admitted it's all just to keep your precious shiny ships alive. No, that's still you, crying for the right to rat without any uncertainty or interference. Quote: Explain why your ship in particular is so special it should be 100% safe in space? Ask yourself first. You're the only one asking for perfect safety in nullsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15380	Posted - 2015.12.08 04:46:31 - [123] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Its impossible to match the unmeasurable potential of an enduring implicit threat. And it all comes down to this. "Waah, I can't live with any uncertainty of any kind!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15380	Posted - 2015.12.08 04:59:41 - [124] - Quote I mean, come on. Has it ever crossed your minds at all, that maybe you just don't belong? If you can't hack it, and obviously you can't, leave the space to people who can. There are people in Curse and Wicked Creek this very day, ratting with neuts in local(I personally saw the ones in Curse, while doing my Angel arc earlier). They don't care, they're not shaking in fear of this "implicit threat" that terrifies Jerghul so. Are they some kind of Ubermensch? Or just real players? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15382	Posted - 2015.12.08 05:27:46 - [125] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jerghul wrote: An implicit threat is by definition incalculable. The only known is what might be lost. And of course loss of access to content causes player adaptation. That is sort of my point when I speak of player attrition. Enduring afk cloaky camping has a far greater negative impact on the game than the the implicit threat hotdropping supers represented. It is in principle the same type of issue. No, it is not. I just laid out how you can go about gathering additional information that can help you get an idea on the level of the threat you face. Further, you have multiple players, if you are really that worried, hope in interceptors and do a quick recon of the area. With 5 or more people it would only take a relatively short amount of time. But Teckos, that cuts into their isk/hr and is therefore "unreasonable!" The only reasonable solution is to break and twist various mechanics (because you know damn well they'll go after cynos next) until nullsec has no uncertainty anymore. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15382	Posted - 2015.12.08 06:28:06 - [126] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Pretty much. I was making this point something like 100 pages back. Uncertainty is really the problem here. They don't know something so they assume the worst possible scenario and then log off. Page 2, first post. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15382	Posted - 2015.12.08 07:39:57 - [127] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: [ And my point is all of your examples depend on player effort and input to be effective, unlike cloaks, and all of them are still less effective than cloaks at providing safety. You're still lying. Going into a POS shield takes less effort and gives you far, far more functionality, whereas cloaks restrict you from using any modules of any kind. Quote: Structures should be better. "more effort for thee but not for me" Carebears are always hypocrites. Quote: They represent a far greater investment of time, isk, effort, and ongoing costs to maintain than a module. You mean like a capital ship does, which you said should have no right to any evasion tactics of any kind? You absolute, backflipping hypocrite. Quote: we got the "but think of the returning titans" argument... All of it just to protect assets in space, just so long as it's your assets being protected. Ah yes, but your assets in space are totally not part of the discussion, because they took isk and time and such to maintain. Again, hypocrite. You are wholly without merit, as a player, poster, and person. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15382	Posted - 2015.12.08 07:45:23 - [128] - Quote So, let's play the "Completely contradictory claims of Mike Voidstar Game!" I'll start. Number one, he says that POSes should not part of the discussion because they cost isk and time and effort to maintain. But that capital ships absolutely should not be able hide themselves using cloaking devices. Number two. He says that a cloaked player should have more risk... while afk ratters and other bloated carebears should have much, much less risk. Number three, he says that local chat absolutely is not part of the argument despite the incredible, free, instant, 100% reliable intel it provides, but it's the only reason why he's even cowering about the cloaked player to begin with. Number four, he says cloaks are not balanced right now despite not letting the cloaked player actually activate any modules... but he claims that cloaks would somehow be balanced if there was a button you could push to de-activate any cloaks withint 20km. Anybody got anything else? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15385	Posted - 2015.12.08 08:19:16 - [129] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: In a discussion about the balance of a type of module they have little to no place. If you want to restrict this just to the balance of the cov ops cloaking device module, then absolutely none of your arguments have any place here. Cloaks in and of themselves are the most perfectly balanced module concept this game has. Quote: I support balanced risk. You observably do not. All of your suggestions would do nothing but make blatant carebearing even more disgustingly safe than it already is. You hate game balance more than anyone I've ever encountered on these forums. Quote: If removed, local chat would be replaced by other Intel that does the same thing. No, it would simply be removed. That's the most balanced way of doing things. The intel available from local is not healthy from the game, and once removed, not if, it should not be compensated with anything, because D-scan already exists. Quote: At no point did I claim there needed to be any kind of button to decloak anything. Again, you lie so much you don't even know what you said yourself. When I mentioned that there already are ways of decloaking enemy cov ops ships, you poutily came in here and demanded a way that reliably decloaked all cov ops ships from 20km away. That's what you want. To destroy game balance, and everyone here knows it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15391	Posted - 2015.12.09 00:03:59 - [130] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: The counter to Fear is Morale. It is not CCPs job to boost morale in your alliance. The counter to fear is competency. Carebears can never have that, or else they wouldn't be carebears. So they cry for CCP to fix problems that only arise from their lazy, entitled mindsets. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15396	Posted - 2015.12.09 05:33:39 - [131] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You want to be 100% carebear/PvE pilot fine. HS is over there, that is your part of the sandbox. Bingo. People like Mike need to stop acting like they have a right to play this game wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15396	Posted - 2015.12.09 05:35:16 - [132] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Both sides aren't giving something up. Until cloaks become huntable all the risk and sacrifice comes from one side. I'm looking to see a balanced start point. No, you are not. We have balance right now with the current situation, you want to break it in your favor. The really funny thing will be when local goes away completely without recompense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15398	Posted - 2015.12.09 05:40:57 - [133] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Bottom line is I see you as full of ****. You want your early warning invulnerable intel system...but want cloak users to have more risk...and somehow that is balanced. Sorry, I find that to be a complete load of phoking bullshit. "more effort for thee but not for me" ~Carebears. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15398	Posted - 2015.12.09 05:42:58 - [134] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: At least, right and proper so long as it does not affect him in any way. And of course all you can really do is just lie and spout personal attacks. That's all you've ever done. Removing local would most certainly effect my gameplay negatively, but it would do so for all parties, which is about the only fair thing I've seen proposed thus far in this miserable tearful excuse for a thread. Cry more. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15398	Posted - 2015.12.09 05:50:09 - [135] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Not more risk. Some risk. At all. They fundamentally do not have zero. Their risk is only lessened by your petulant refusal to actually play the game correctly and do something about them. You'd rather just whine about how your isk/hr goes down if you fit your Afktar differently, or play with other people. Quote: Currently you have no risk that you do not specifically choose. It's not zero, but rewarding patience by allowing attacks of opportunity is absolutely, 100% intended design of the cloaking device. It's what repays the cloaked ship for being gimped in fitting and base stats, and unable to activate any of his highslot modules while doing it. Cloaks right now are the most well balanced module concept in this game. You want to break that, to not only ruin their intended purpose but cripple the ships dependent on them as well, and you selfishly want to do this so you can farm anoms all day without having to do **** besides watch local. And that will never happen. Unlike a cloaked player, who does not generate assets into the game world, the ratter does. He is subject to risk vs reward, and you don't get to make his life easier in the slightest degree. TL;DR? Go back to highsec, or hurry up and quit already, since it's pretty obvious that you actually hate EVE Online. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15398	Posted - 2015.12.09 05:55:03 - [136] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Removing local would negatively impact your gameplay by requiring you to hit Dscan once upon entering a system. Yep.. Huge downside there, compared to the eternal hammering of Dscan now required by your targets. Or, like the average wormhole player, they could just put the slightest amount of effort into scouting their own gates. But no, gotta use every account for that isk/hr, right Mike? Quote: You are a liar and a coward too afraid to face anyone when you don't hold every single advantage. Such projection. You're the one asking for everything worthwhile about a type of module to be stripped away because you can't be asked to bait somebody properly. Or lift a finger in your own defense, no no, that's "unreasonable!". My God are you an entitled bastard. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15402	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:02:33 - [137] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Really? Where is their risk sitting at that safe? Not much, but then you're the one who told me that staying awake counted as enough effort to justify the incredible safety that local offers, so even making a safe at all exceeds that by quite a bit. Quote: It's Zero, and there's no patience involved. Wrong twice in one sentence. Rant and froth some more, I'm still thirsty. Oh, and make sure that when they announce the "No more local in nullsec, can be obtained with a starbase module that goes away if you entosis it." dev blog, be sure to post there so I can get a few laughs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15402	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:04:51 - [138] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But nooooo....risk for the PvE pilot who picks a sub-standard fit relative to PvP....that's outrageous!!! No Teckos, it's "unreasonable!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15405	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:09:06 - [139] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Start that Intel thread, see where it goes. There is a lot more to consider than just OP cloaks. This is the intel thread. This thread is to discuss everything to do with afk cloaking. Afk cloaking ONLY exists because of local. It is fully on topic. Quote: Local in it's current form may very well go away, but it will be replaced by something similar in function because it's a needed feature of the game. No, it is not. Once again, although I know you've never been in one because looking at a hole gives you the willies, but wormholes do perfectly well without it. Only caveat though, they actually have to play the game, which I'm sure is "unreasonable!" to you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15405	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:15:57 - [140] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: What's hilarious about this is that Karrous will cry and cry some more because local was put back. It was not too many posts ago he was advocating removing local completely because Dscan already exists. Why would I cry about them implementing one of my own ideas? Are you high right now? Have you smoked the reefer, son? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15406	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:19:34 - [141] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: What's hilarious about this is that Karrous will cry and cry some more because local was put back. It was not too many posts ago he was advocating removing local completely because Dscan already exists. Why would I cry about them implementing one of my own ideas? Are you high right now? Have you smoked the reefer, son? TBQH....if he did, my respect for him would go up a bit. I honestly cannot figure out what he's going for anymore, he's all over the place, moreso than usual. I suspect inebriation of some kind, and my guess was the chronic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15406	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:33:44 - [142] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: From post #4068 on page 204 Yeah, local chat would not have anything added in compensation, nor would there be some magical new mechanic for intel added, that was my point. My idea is to be able to add it back into the system with a starbase module that is vulnerable to attack. (which is highly likely outcome anyway, if you bothered to read the Citadel threads and dev blogs) Do you not know how to read, or are you just that obtuse? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15407	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:39:41 - [143] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Ah, so nothing like you said. Exactly like I said, you're just desperately trying to find something to hang onto. My prediction is that there will not be anything added into the game in compensation for local eventually being removed. My idea is that instead of adding anything new, they should add a starbase module that puts local into the system. So you answered my question, by the way. You really are that obtuse. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15407	Posted - 2015.12.09 06:48:50 - [144] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: It's kind of a night and day difference. Nope. Notably, this would have the interesting effect of making NPC null have no local at all, since ideally the starbase module would require sov ownership. (and even more ideally, into the realm of fevered dream, NPC null would have plenty of opportunity to engage with the pirate factions) Finally a serious differentiation between the two barring the ability to plant a flag. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15414	Posted - 2015.12.09 22:18:56 - [145] - Quote I see we're back into the "Jergens blatantly making stuff up" phase again. Do you have anything to back up all of that bullshit? Or are we just supposed to beg the devs to waste time and manpower just because your dumb ass said something? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15414	Posted - 2015.12.09 22:32:22 - [146] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: My issue is that the ship has that effect, and an important one at that, with no chance of player interruption. And because you're a selfish, dishonest carebear, you can't figure out why cloaks don't have much chance of you interrupting them. It is because: They have no ACTUAL effect, only an imaginary one. They can very literally do nothing while cloaked. (Meanwhile the carebear can in fact generate resources afk, which condemns him above all others) Cloaks are SUPPOSED to act like that. They are very deliberately supposed to give the player using them the ability to attack targets of opportunity. They are supposed to reward patience with more agency in decision making than the person not using a cloak. If they didn't, they would be utterly worthless, a penalty in and of themselves to even be able to use cov ops cloaks. (which is of course what you want, you want it broken in your favor instead of balanced. You hate balance, every carebear does) And lastly, because you have NO RIGHT to feel secure in nullsec space, ever. Cloaking devices play their part in that. You are supposed to have uncertainty, risk, and feel the influence of literally anyone with the wherewithal to do something about it. (And if, as you both have claimed repeatedly, you would rather be in highsec than actually play the game with risk, then your ass does not belong in nullsec at all) Quote: I don't feel it's reasonable to demand a full defense fleet for every ship that wants to operate at any time Hell, you're on record as saying that it's unreasonable to have a web alt escorting a freighter. You "feel" (** your feelings by the way, feels are not reals) that ANY action taken in self defense is unreasonable. Quote: especially when doing so completely undercuts the purpose of any pilot who has the goal of PVE. That's when it should be happening the most. Especially in nullsec. Quote: They can interrupt my ISK making, but I should be able to interrupt their interruption. What you mean is, "I should be able to have zero interference, risk or uncertainty whatsoever." No. You get to deal with it, like so many others are these days with the tools that already exist. You don't get a new mechanic just because you're too lazy to use the ones that already exist. This is exactly like the freighter thread. Carebears are too lazy and entitled to actually play the game like everyone else, so you pout, whine and cry for an overpowered mechanic, to just push one button and be perfectly safe forever. Hell, you straight up ***** told me that "being awake" is significant effort according to you. Goddamned pathetic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15419	Posted - 2015.12.10 12:32:34 - [147] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: No I mean if you are negatively impacting me, I should be able to contest that. That's called conflict and it's what the game is about. Don't you need a diaper change by now after all that? But AFK cloakers are not negatively impacting you. That would be hard, what with them being AFK and all. Your feelings are negatively impacting you. I'm not sure how you hope to contest that. Maybe lie down on a couch and talk about your mother for a bit? Well, you haven't been paying attention, because clearly his feelings should be allowed to dictate game balance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15424	Posted - 2015.12.10 14:53:34 - [148] - Quote Is anyone else laughing at the fact that he linked a post wherein Fozzie hints at the intent to delete local from nullsec? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15430	Posted - 2015.12.11 03:51:02 - [149] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: What Brokk said. No PvE pilot is going to go for those changes. The PvE pilot's idea of securing space is dropping a couple of structures and then watching local. That's it. No more effort beyond that. Which is precisely why they don't get a say in the matter, because they will always vote selfishly and never with regard to actual game balance. Their skewed view of the game disqualifies them from any and every balance discussion. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15430	Posted - 2015.12.11 03:53:10 - [150] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You might want to rethink telling the worm hole guy how worm holes work. Teckos, how dare you? Mike has every right to dictate game balance from a position of complete, utter ignorance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15431	Posted - 2015.12.11 04:09:38 - [151] - Quote Uh oh Brokk, now you did it. You said that people play games to have fun, not to just repeat the same activity a million times in an obscene quest to make the green number get bigger. Don't you know that's sacrilege? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15440	Posted - 2015.12.11 12:31:24 - [152] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Point remains you do pretty much exactly the same thing the NS PvE guy does. Wrong. In a wormhole they actually do something, not just stay awake enough to watch local. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15443	Posted - 2015.12.11 13:03:01 - [153] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Not the person just doing PvE. He is watched over by others. Ah, too bad you've already repeatedly rebuked even the very concept of that. What did you two call the idea of having standing fleets and scouts? Oh yeah. "unreasonable." "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15451	Posted - 2015.12.12 00:29:24 - [154] - Quote Just lol. "Implict threat is major EVE Problem." No, Jergens. One of the pillars of this game is not a major problem, no matter how many times you repeat that cut and pasted doggerel. If I see it again you get reported for spamming. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15454	Posted - 2015.12.12 00:57:24 - [155] - Quote Is someone sad that their bad ideas and wild conjecture has no likes? I checked the weather report, but it didn't say anything about rain with sodium. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15456	Posted - 2015.12.12 11:55:45 - [156] - Quote Did he just admit to repeatedly changing the goal posts? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15464	Posted - 2015.12.13 12:03:32 - [157] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Jerghul wrote: Wander The same thing that would stop you from omni tanking in wormhole space if rats there did specific damage types. So basically what you are trying to not tell is that you could already omni-tank the ratters, but won't because isk/hohour. It's starting to look like the reason AFK-cloAFK-cloakers are an issue is because of entitlement and greed Starting? That's been the reason for years and years. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15467	Posted - 2015.12.13 23:37:48 - [158] - Quote Mag's wrote: He's trolling bud. No one can be that ignorant. Oh, plenty of carebears are that ignorant, in fact. It's the circuitous back and forth, and the repeating of his debunked concepts that makes him a troll. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15467	Posted - 2015.12.14 06:05:17 - [159] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: It's not because "we" don't have the same issues with it, that the issue isn't there. I disagree. That does mean the "issue" isn't there. If something is a problem for one person and not a problem for the other, it means the first person is doing it wrong, plain and simple. He can use as many excuses as he wants for playing the game wrong, but in the end he is just asking to have his uncertainty taken away so he can lazily farm afk in his isk/hr min/maxed boats. He doesn't want to defend himself like your group does, he thinks he's entitled to not have to defend himself in the first place. You are better than he is. He is worse than you are. You put in more effort than he does. He puts in much less effort than you do. And he thinks there should be no difference in the outcome. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15470	Posted - 2015.12.14 15:41:25 - [160] - Quote I like how he's dead set on interpreting Fozzie's statement in any way except in the way it was meant. "AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that" Apparently means "We'll be allowing you to remove gates in nullsec!" I mean, holy crap guy. There really isn't any other way to interpret that, but you didn't just cross that line, you leapt over it on a motorcycle. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15471	Posted - 2015.12.14 16:04:41 - [161] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Well, the echo chamber that gives you all your thoughts on Eve immediately leapt to "woot, Fozie is talking about wh-local. Yay!" Nah, I came up with that about forty seconds after I read the post. I honestly cannot figure out where you're getting "we're going after gates!" from that, aside from your attempting to project your desperation to not admit that local is the problem onto the developers. Quote: I am interested in itemizing what those reasons might be, and examining what their null-sec equivalents could look like. Oh, that's easy. They will delete local. And then, neither the player ratting nor the cloaked player will know the other person is there without seeing them on grid or d-scan. All passive gameplay and intel is thereby gone, both players have to engage in more active piloting. The ratter has no one to be annoyed at, and the cloaked player has no way to annoy the ratter with his presence alone. And afk cloaking is instantly gone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15482	Posted - 2015.12.15 12:48:33 - [162] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I like how you edit around the salient points... You've never had any. All you have are blithering excuses why you refuse to attempt ANY methods of defending yourself, calling them all "unreasonable." Like this pathetic piece of sophistry below: Quote: Compromised fits. It's not a "compromised" fit at all. It's just not a unbalanced isk printing machine. And since this is all about your isk/hr, you claim that actually fitting for PvP with a red in system is "unreasonable." Coming from the man who thinks that staying awake constitutes significant effort, I can see why you think that actually defending yourself is some Herculean task. But you're wrong, about everything. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15485	Posted - 2015.12.15 23:16:15 - [163] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: So long as tackle remains an absolute mechanic then allowing a ship on grid with a soft target is suicide. And of course it's "unreasonable" to just fit your ship so you aren't a soft target. Because isk/hr. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15487	Posted - 2015.12.16 02:49:39 - [164] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: I've long ago said I don't care what happens to intel. They aren't going to take local away and call it a day. They will replace it with something equivalent. Maybe it will be attached to structures, vulnerable to entosis, or whatever... but it will work reliably enough to be useful. It's fine if they do something with it... but it's not going to balance or unbalance cloaks. Making cloaks huntable will balance them, so long as that change is itself balanced. Haven't I been saying this for the past 150 pages. Get rid of local. Move intel into a POS and make it vulnerable to attack. Make cloaks vulnerable to scan in some way. No more AFK cloaking. No more local as intel being invulnerable. Of course, for people who just want to bear it up in NS, IGÇÖll be there to entosis that damn structure. IGÇÖd really love it if there would be a way to hack it so the PvE pilots donGÇÖt know it has gone down on a successful hack. Unsuccessful hack every alarm goes off. Heck, even if it disabled my ship for a period of time IGÇÖd be fine. Just so long as I have a chance to sneak up on that PvE pilot and in the spirit of the game, GÇ£Ruin his game.GÇ¥ My counter proposal. Local is deleted. Now, to see each other, both sides need to be on grid. A citadel module is introduced, that replicates local chat functionality. It is disabled when there is a single successful entosis cycle. Another successful cycle, by the owning corp, is required to re-activate it. The implications of that should be obvious. If the carebears are the afk ratters actually want what they claim, then they'll be overjoyed. But they don't really want to defend themselves, or have any real opportunity to hunt the guy in their system, so they'll actually be outraged. All they want is cloaks ruined to cater to their obscene risk aversion and disgusting entitlement. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15493	Posted - 2015.12.16 06:40:24 - [165] - Quote Maria Dragoon wrote: Six years, and 231 pages later in some random thread they created to help calm the AFK thread spamming, and we still have no solution in sight. Of course not. Solutions are for things that are actually problems. Just because a bunch of bears cry and whine, does not mean anything is broken. In fact, it typically means that something is balanced, since the only thing carebears hate more than non consensual PvP existing is game balance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15493	Posted - 2015.12.16 06:45:22 - [166] - Quote Your thought progression is painful to contemplate. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15494	Posted - 2015.12.16 07:21:25 - [167] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Now, you did actually accomplish something noteworthy with that post in that you seem to have found a way around Cunningham's Law by posting something that was so wrong, nobody felt any particular need to correct it right up until you got pouty. I'll give him that, yeah. The first time he posted, my thought process was: "Whaa?" "Well... okay. Good luck with that." And then I moved on. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15505	Posted - 2015.12.17 12:25:13 - [168] - Quote Jerghul wrote: What Mike is actually doing is looking at a game mechanic that has an unreasonable effect and suggest that it be changed. What Mike, and you, are doing is desperately grasping for anything that will try to justify nerfing a perfectly balanced game mechanic, so that you can remove uncertainty from your own gameplay. It's obvious, it's stupid, and it's disgraceful. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15505	Posted - 2015.12.17 12:27:42 - [169] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You can fly a compromised fit, and lose profit. It is not compromised, you dishonest lout. It's a balanced fit that can actually defend itself. But since it's not an unbalanced isk printer, you reject it. That reveals that you are just out to justify removing uncertainity from your obscene farming, nothing else. Any other motive you claim is a lie, used to try and shield your dishonest attempts to break game balance in your favor. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15505	Posted - 2015.12.17 13:12:18 - [170] - Quote Jerghul wrote: What I am primarily interested in seeing is a reduction in yolo yokels (small gang F1 village idiots) using 0 skill tactics ripped off from reddit. And what you're doing right now is trying to denigrate a playstyle that you don't like, trying to use that to justify nerfing them. It's a pretty standard carebear tactic. Whether you like it or not, it's intended gameplay. Deal with it, or just get out of nullsec. But above all else, shut up already. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15505	Posted - 2015.12.17 13:14:27 - [171] - Quote Oh and then there's this doggerel. Jerghul wrote: I'm fine with kills that require determination, skill and solid premeditation. The kind that takes the target seriously. So, you hate any and all non consensual PvP. Too bad. Not only do people not have to respect their prey, most people never will. Deal with it. Quote: But we know change is coming and that the changes will give me what I want in a more entertaining way than how it is achieved today. Yeah. By deleting local, most likely without compensation, or if you're lucky it'll get tied to a starbase module. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15506	Posted - 2015.12.17 13:38:47 - [172] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Players with determination, skill, and proper premeditation are good at generating unsolicited kills. Oh, that isn't the category I was talking about. "the kind that takes the target seriously". Heh, nope, not happening. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15506	Posted - 2015.12.17 13:49:21 - [173] - Quote Jerghul wrote: If you don't have to take your targets seriously, then all you are really saying it that EvE is broken because 0 skilz is enough. No, what I'm saying that this is not a flight sim, and individual pilot skill is basically a non factor in the majority of cases. It's just something used by fluffed up bads who are desperate for an excuse to put themselves on a pedestal. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15523	Posted - 2015.12.17 22:52:49 - [174] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Your statement is false. No one is immune to him. Mechanically, yes, they are. You're crying about all these meta problems you have(most of which are of your own creation), and demanding a mechanical solution that breaks game balance. And the answer is no. Cloaks mechanics are perfectly balanced right now. Not one single thing about them needs to be changed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15527	Posted - 2015.12.18 03:29:32 - [175] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: However, cloaks aren't structures, so using them to create conditions similar to docking is not appropriate. It's really hard to be this wrong, but he pulled it off. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15527	Posted - 2015.12.18 03:40:06 - [176] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I won't be that pedantic however, as you seem to think risk exists on a teeter-totter, and increasing risk on one side reduces risk on the other. Not so, however. Completely so. If two people are in opposition, making one side's life harder makes the other side's life easier, by definition. There is no debating that, it's a simple fact. Quote: Part of your argument in claiming balance currently is that an AFK ship poses no risk. And that is also, literally true. An afk player cannot activate modules, or perform any kind of offensive action. What you're crying about is the possibility that they aren't afk. What you are crying about is uncertainty. And the answer is "too bad, deal with it." You are supposed to have uncertainty in your disgusting farming, that is fully intended. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15529	Posted - 2015.12.18 03:56:07 - [177] - Quote Jerghul wrote: He is dealing with it No, he's not. He's crying to the devs to do his job for him, so he can go back to farming in his unbalanced isk printing ship. That might as well be the definition of not dealing with it. Now shut it, you. I tire of your blatant trolling. Quote: Embrace change and harden up a bit my friend. Harden up a bit, and embrace actually playing the game without having it changed in your favor first. ******* hypocrite. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15530	Posted - 2015.12.18 04:11:44 - [178] - Quote Jerghul wrote: What Mike is asking for does not decrease his risk at all Whatever happened to your "implicit risk" bullshit? According to that, he very much is begging on his scuffed knees for his risk to be removed. Besides, I was talking about uncertainty, and I have been since page 2. Quote: Community involvement is a desirable part of EvE Ah yes, so we should nerf anything that prevents good old Mike here from being afk in an anom by himself, right? Right? Because if we lie hard enough, removing player interaction totally counts as encouraging it, right? Quote: just as providing relevant feedback helps the development process. If you took your feedback and shoved it in a wormhole, it would be the first time you've been in one. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15530	Posted - 2015.12.18 04:23:39 - [179] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Mike is betting that cloaky campers are indeed very like little things that run away a lot in the face of even tiny risk. No, that's just good old Mike projecting his behavior onto other people. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15530	Posted - 2015.12.18 04:26:09 - [180] - Quote Jerghul wrote: No need to project. You'd think that, but he does it anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15531	Posted - 2015.12.18 06:13:08 - [181] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: No, you are trying to reshape my argument to something more to your liking. He's summing it up perfectly, which you hate because your position, when all listed out like that, makes you look really bad. Quote: CCP could also increase the cloaked ships risk, without making risk less for anyone else. A literal impossibility in a game based on competition. Quote: I don't mind being hunted, and having to respond to the hunter. You mind very much, that's why you're here crying to have your uncertainty completely removed. It's also why, despite all your puffing about afk this and that in this thread, you have repeatedly argued for afk freighters to be safe in highsec. Screw the truth and screw consistency, only the carebear narrative matters, more safety! Quote: What I am after is that if the threat is there, the pilot also be there And I know this part is a lie, because that's exactly what we already have. If they are afk, they are by definition absolutely no threat. If they are at the keyboard, then they are hunting you and are a threat. And both are completely legitimate positions. You just cannot stand not knowing which one is the case. You are demanding a complete, total end to any uncertainty you have. And that will never happen. Deal with it. Quote: But creating a presence that must be responded to with no way to bring retaliation to him is not balanced. Cloaking devices are balanced. That's why you hate them so much, because you hate game balance and you want the game broken to be in your favor. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15534	Posted - 2015.12.18 08:12:28 - [182] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Finally just a reminder that any solution presented so far will either castrate non covert cloaks, or if non covert cloaks are not then covert will remain just as they are today. It's a paradoxical to suggest otherwise, but I'm sure that won't stop you anyway. Yes, in NS, anything that allows for scanning cloaked ships will hit non-covert cloaks and the hulls that fit them harder. Which is a bit of a problem for BLOPs. Not to mention it completely breaks caps. Which is a common theme of Mike's, considering how he wanted to break caps to fix his "I'm entitled to fly a freighter solo" problem. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15539	Posted - 2015.12.18 11:07:49 - [183] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You don't see the ridiculousness of demanding that every individual miner have a defense fleet Wrong. All anyone here is saying is that if you refuse to bother defending yourself, as you repeatedly have(claiming that it's "unreasonable" to lift a finger in your own defense), that you don't get to cry when you die. Your dying is working as intended, if you refuse to defend yourself. If you don't want to die, try actually playing the game instead of farming in an unbalanced isk printing machine. Oh wait no, changing even one iota of your special snowflake fit is also "unreasonable", right? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15555	Posted - 2015.12.19 12:45:18 - [184] - Quote Jerghul wrote: No one is as risk averse as an afk cloaky camper No, the person tearfully demanding that cloaking devices be ruined because they're afraid to rat afk with a red in local is definitively more risk averse than pretty much anything else in the game. No matter what kerfuffle you try, that badge is pinned securely on your chest. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15557	Posted - 2015.12.19 14:15:21 - [185] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Right after we remove the nerfs on the ships that can carry a covops-cloak. Meaning proper HP and resists and the ability to preheat modules before decloaking Or, we can not have to rebalance a whole set of ships and modules based on the complaints of people who are just trying to make it easier to rat afk. Hmm, decisions decisions. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15566	Posted - 2015.12.20 12:42:46 - [186] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Hunting ratters should not give you a license to be immune to interaction while you do it. A cloaky ship is not immune to interaction. Unless you're trying to claim that it is not possible to decloak someone at all? If you are, let me know ahead of time, thanks to an old injury I need to take a deep breath before laughing really hard. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15566	Posted - 2015.12.20 12:54:33 - [187] - Quote Mag's wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: Hunting ratters should not give you a license to be immune to interaction while you do it. A cloaky ship is not immune to interaction. Unless you're trying to claim that it is not possible to decloak someone at all? If you are, let me know ahead of time, thanks to an old injury I need to take a deep breath before laughing really hard. It's not just that. He's doing his normal disingenuous use argument. He'll include local when it suits, then omit it when it doesn't. That last post of his, is a prime example. Oh yeah he's a dishonest shitbag. For my part though, I know from personal experience that a cloaky camper is not invulnerable(or whatever bullshit Mike is slinging this time) to a damned thing. Say what you want about Goons, when they take offense they seriously take offense. Bastards go into this autistic out-of-body experience, then spend hours watching with probes on scan long enough to nail you with a counter cyno. Never seen twenty blops so happy to kill a Purifier. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15567	Posted - 2015.12.20 14:08:07 - [188] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Still waiting for that counter to a ship camping under a cloak. All the ways to deal with a cloaky camper have been listed out in this thread at least thrice that I know of. You just don't listen to anything that doesn't agree with your deluded nonsense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15567	Posted - 2015.12.20 14:16:02 - [189] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I heard What you wanted to hear, because you are intellectually dishonest. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15567	Posted - 2015.12.20 14:49:42 - [190] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: spell it out. Nope. I'm not abiding by your definitions, your self serving demands, your false dichotomies, or anything of the sort. At this point, after so many pages of your puerile whining, I am content to let you wallow in your own ignorance and laugh at your inability to play this game properly. And the best part is that it would be easy to fix, but for your terrible, entitled attitude that demands isk/hr as some kind of right. Plenty of people operate normally every day under conditions you have deemed impossible and "unreasonable", but you can't manage. Well, you can't manage because you're bad, and not one thing about this game should be changed just because someone like you can't do it right. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15572	Posted - 2015.12.20 23:13:55 - [191] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Karous is actually supporting that he should be able to be undocked, in hostile space, afk, and immune to attack. No, I'm suggesting that you think such a thing is true is ludicrous, and that you're both self serving losers trying to get rid of any uncertainty in your gameplay. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15572	Posted - 2015.12.20 23:27:52 - [192] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Karous Which would make this no longer about you. It's never been about me. The entire thread is about people like you, people who claim that tears about something equates to the mechanic being broken. It doesn't. The game is not broken because you lose. The game is not broken because you can't have your unbalanced isk printing machine at the same time as being perfectly safe. The game is not broken because risk vs reward applies to your obscene farming. And the game is not broken because cloaking devices function as they are supposed to. Get right or get gone. If you can't deal with other people in local, then you don't belong in nullsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15572	Posted - 2015.12.20 23:31:54 - [193] - Quote Jerghul wrote: I find your sense of entitlement lulzy. And you're projecting like Supreme Leader Snoke. Quote: And anyone like you that feels they have some divine right to be undocked, in hostile space, afk, and safe. So, not me, but just you two? Because that's what you're both arguing for here, and Mike's even admitted it more than once. The right to rat without any uncertainty or risk whatsoever. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15582	Posted - 2015.12.21 12:34:24 - [194] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: False, or a lie. You cannot even get on grid with him unless he allows it, or puts himself on grid with you. It's entirely up to him, which is the problem. Pray tell, do you magically arrive on a different grid to everyone else when you use a gate? FFS man, try and actually play in the part of space you're commenting on. "Waaaaa it's his choice to jump the gate" Yup, just like it's your choice to not hope one system over and if he follows you, guess what, you can nail him to the wall. But doubtless that "effort" is "unreasonable". He really does think that having to do anything more than push one button to defeat the cloaked player is unreasonable. Having to change his isk printing fit is unreasonable. Moving is unreasonable. Baiting the guy is unreasonable. Having a defense fleet ready is unreasonable. Ignoring the guy is unreasonable. Being expected to defend his own gates so no one gets in is unreasonable. Being at his keyboard is unreasonable. Apparently, playing the game at all is unreasonable. Hell, a bot would probably be more interesting than Mike is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15587	Posted - 2015.12.22 00:33:21 - [195] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You don't see the problem because it benefits you. Wrong. You don't see that it's balanced because you don't like it, and you're entitled. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15590	Posted - 2015.12.22 07:04:51 - [196] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Its not about Mike. But it is. It's about Mike, you, and all the other whiners who think they have the right to ever be safe while engaged in PvE in nullsec space. It's about people who think they're entitled to have uncertainty taken away so they don't have to make any hard choices, or any tradeoffs. It's about people who think that other players should have less player freedom so they can just sit back and farm all day long. The only reason the thread exists at all is your entitlement and selfishness. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15591	Posted - 2015.12.22 09:04:35 - [197] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Cloaks represent exactly that sort of arbitrary change. They violate one of the most foundational concepts of the game so as to allow one party to dominate the other parties activities without any chance at retribution. And of course, his problem with cloaks is that they exist at all. Which is of course why his proposals would basically cripple their being functional at all. They exist to change the game, dumbshit! "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15599	Posted - 2015.12.23 08:52:02 - [198] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Cloaks are only "too safe" if one is essentially not playing the game. And while they are safe....you are safe from them. This has been Mag's point all along. They are only safe so long as they do NOT engage you. Of course. They're as safe from you as you are from them. It's fair. Which is why Mike hates it. He wants it to be unfair in his favor, and for cloaks to be unviable and unable to fulfill their intended purpose. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15599	Posted - 2015.12.23 09:02:42 - [199] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Cloaks are too safe so long as they allow for 100% safety outside of a dock. The second they can activate any modules, or have any actual effect on the game, sure. Til then, you're just crying to selfishly break the game in your favor. Quote: The camper isn't 'not playing the game'. He is projecting threat and forcing defensive response from others in the system. No he is not. He cannot activate any module at all. Quote: Regardless... If you are not inside a structure, you need to be at some form of risk. Cloaks do not pass that standard. You mean the standard you completely made up to dishonestly fit your own selfish criteria? Yeah, no one cares what you think, liar. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15599	Posted - 2015.12.23 09:30:00 - [200] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: If it's OK to be safe, it's ok to be safe. Not if you can activate any modules while doing so. Especially not if you're generating income or assets into the game world. The only reason cloaks are any kind of exception at all is because of how much they cripple the user, both in terms of active gameplay choices and in terms of raw stats on cov ops capable ship classes. Come on, this isn't that hard. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15601	Posted - 2015.12.23 09:40:27 - [201] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: So you support making pods and shuttles immune to being hunted as well? Of course not, they don't have cov ops cloaks. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15601	Posted - 2015.12.23 09:43:50 - [202] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Well chief, cloaks don't count either, because my made up bullshit is as valid as the next persons. Actually, your made up bullshit is far more valid than his, because you don't have a history of outright lying every third post you make. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15601	Posted - 2015.12.23 09:45:00 - [203] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Pods and shuttles are inferior in every way to a cov ops ship. They're also not something you have to train into, obviously. Are you really this dumb? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15601	Posted - 2015.12.23 09:47:44 - [204] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: People accuse me of stacking the deck. Someone calling you dishonest isn't an accusation, it's a statement of fact. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15601	Posted - 2015.12.23 09:49:23 - [205] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Oh, so now training is the limiter on being safe? No, moron. If you train into cloaks and cov ops ships, you get the benefits they provide. Nothing more, nothing less. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15602	Posted - 2015.12.23 10:09:48 - [206] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Right. And the contention is that benefit is unbalanced. And it's been explained several times over, in detail, that it's not. In any way. In fact, cov ops cloaks are probably the most perfectly designed module concept that this game has. You're just a crybaby who wants his own risk and uncertainty cut down to practically nothing for no effort. Hell, you even had the gall to say that being awake at all counted as "significant effort" in your eyes. You wouldn't know game balance if it bit you in the ass. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15602	Posted - 2015.12.23 10:17:55 - [207] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The issue is the inability to hunt cloaked ships That's not an issue. It's them working as intended. They are supposed to give a wary and prepared player the ability to make attacks of opportunity as he sees fit. Besides, you can hunt them, just not easily. To suggest that they are completely safe is a lie. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15602	Posted - 2015.12.23 10:48:13 - [208] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You have failed, over and over, to justify being 100% safe while not in a structure. To claim it's a 100% safe to begin with is a lie. Secondly, just because your selfish, lying ass fails to recognize it doesn't change the fact that cloaking devices have been explained in detail in this thread repeatedly. Oh, and no one has to justify anything to someone like you. You don't matter. Quote: You are supporting the most risk averse playstyle No, that's still you. The one bleating about how you should have no uncertainty whilst you farm isk endlessly. That's risk aversion. Certainly not the person hunting such disgusting, bloated carebears. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15602	Posted - 2015.12.23 10:58:05 - [209] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Nice troll, buddy. I'm not trolling. The only risk averse ones here are you lot. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15603	Posted - 2015.12.23 13:34:39 - [210] - Quote Jerghul wrote: The thread topic is the ultra risk aversion inherent to afk cloaky camping. Actually, it's the ultra risk aversion that makes people complain about cloaking devices at all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15619	Posted - 2015.12.24 12:41:12 - [211] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You don't have to like it. That's my line. It doesn't matter what someone like you thinks of cloaking devices. You aren't supposed to like them, they exist to bring risk and uncertainty to you where otherwise you would have none. The goal of this game is not to let you carebear away obscenely farming all day long. Any mechanical change that makes you even the slightest bit safer is wrong, and you are wrong for asking for it. Generating income in nullsec is not supposed to be safe, ever. Things that don't, like cloaks, don't even come into consideration in comparison. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15619	Posted - 2015.12.24 13:00:08 - [212] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: And no, you've argued repeatedly that it's not fair you need to do something to look out for yourself whilst you rake in isk and over fist. Lets not forget the part where he said that being awake at all counts as significant effort in his eyes. Anything more than that, such as actually playing the game, is "unreasonable." "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15621	Posted - 2015.12.24 15:17:09 - [213] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The cloaked ship cannot be watched. Yeah he can, you can watch him in local. Which is the only way you even know about him, for that matter. Quote: It's not about what it does or does not do to ratters and miners. That's all it's about. You crying because you want it to have less effect on you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15623	Posted - 2015.12.24 23:13:36 - [214] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: It's really not about the God forsaken isk. You've demonstrated otherwise many times in this thread. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15628	Posted - 2015.12.25 14:29:59 - [215] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Cloaks are imbalanced with too much action allowable for their level of safety. They don't allow any actions. They're perfectly balanced right now, liar. (which is why you hate them so much, because you hate game balance) Now, you know what's unbalanced? The sheer amount of intel and safety provided by local, that you don't have to do anything to get or maintain. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15628	Posted - 2015.12.25 14:44:40 - [216] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Oh, so you can't Only one of those is even debatable as an action. And you have to be decloaked to drop probes in the first place. The rest are not actions in any way, you aren't actually doing anything to the game world. D scan? Cry more, while local still exists. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15628	Posted - 2015.12.25 14:51:19 - [217] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Coming from someone who cannot even stomach the minimal requirement of staying awake to secure his own safety, ...you? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15628	Posted - 2015.12.25 14:55:46 - [218] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I'm not the one supporting an afk lifestyle Yeah, you are. I'm supporting an afk player who isn't effecting the game world in any way, shape or form. You're supporting afk people farming isk non stop without risk or uncertainty. I want to maintain risk vs reward, you want to break it. There is absolutely no equivalency between our two positions. Mine is right, and yours is wholly wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15632	Posted - 2015.12.26 07:08:18 - [219] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: If you are going to be as safe as in a station, you need to face a similar degree of impairment, and currently you do not. It's not as safe as a station. Also, "waah, D-scan". You still have local. You don't have a leg to stand on crying about D-scan. Just shows how desperate you are, scrambling to find anything to justify a nerf where none is needed. How about you grow a spine, and actually play the game correctly? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15633	Posted - 2015.12.26 12:39:33 - [220] - Quote Jerghul wrote: A nerf is needed when pilots can be undocked, in hostile space, afk, and safe. It goes against the most basic golden rules of EvE No, it's just how cloaks are intended to work. It's the benefit to their otherwise crippling penalties. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15633	Posted - 2015.12.26 22:31:20 - [221] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: If you want to nerf cloaks, you got to accept some nerfs to your safety-nets also. This is the part where you find out that carebears hate game balance. Because the thought of there being ANY give and take in this discussion will send them into conniptions. They are so incomparably selfish that they think that balance only means buffing them exclusively without end. As long as there is non consensual PvP left in this game, they will claim that it's not balanced. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15635	Posted - 2015.12.27 01:49:56 - [222] - Quote Jerghul wrote: is there never any end to whiny vet greed? That's my line. Is there ever any end to people crying that they can't farm without risk? Quote: Making afk cloaky camping (3/4) nominally at least vulnerable is the right thing to do. Nerfing cloaks in any way is the wrong thing to do. Less safety for PvE is always the wrong answer. Especially in nullsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15638	Posted - 2015.12.28 10:10:45 - [223] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Yet you don't do the same? Everybody else has to adapt, but you? Special snowflake much? Carebears in a nutshell. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15641	Posted - 2015.12.31 00:44:56 - [224] - Quote Xcom wrote: I think the whole argument loops around when the AFK cloaking is justified as a broken mechanic capping and countering solo farming in null space. It's not broken either way. And PvE should never be safe. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15642	Posted - 2015.12.31 08:42:37 - [225] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: It's an extremely broken mechanic not at all keeping with EvE's design principals. You can repeat that lie as often as you want, but cloaks are still working as intended. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15642	Posted - 2015.12.31 10:03:06 - [226] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I didn't say it wasn't intended. I said it was broken. It is intended, and it's not broken. Quote: They handwaved the problems by saying the most important thing was disrupting isk making in null, thereby implying that screwing over any non-combat professions regardless of the imbalance took a back seat to insuring gankbears were kept happy. That is the most important thing. No PvE activity should ever be free of risk or uncertainty, especially in nullsec. Your desire for safety is wrong, and it goes against the founding principles of this game. You wanting to break perfectly balanced modules and mechanics to salve your rabid risk aversion being a big example of that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15653	Posted - 2016.01.01 23:30:55 - [227] - Quote Xcom wrote: How is it possible for people to be so obtuse about justify there silly belief that nullspace rattings only counter is a broken mechanic. Talk about broken logic. If you believe that sitting in space cloaked indefinitely is a valid and logical mechanic then I hope CCP makes cloaking permanent. You shouldn't be able to turn off the cloak, problem solved! It's really funny how you aren't even bothering to hide the fact that butthurt alone motivates your posting. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15658	Posted - 2016.01.04 02:50:09 - [228] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Afk cloaky camping is Eve funded multiple account fluff that is detrimental to the game. It will not be a thing for much longer. Emotional emphatics in place of evidence or actual facts. Which is pretty much the TL;DR of every argument made by carebears. Oh, and I'll bet you a Plex that cloaking devices won't be touched this calendar year. We can get Chribba to hold the money if you'd like. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15678	Posted - 2016.01.09 13:05:51 - [229] - Quote Xcom wrote: This is your opinion. Its not a fact or anything other then your wishes regarding how the game should and shouldn't be. Now look in the mirror and repeat this. Then realize that you're projecting like crazy. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 14:39:27 - [230] - Quote Xcom wrote: Its a fact when a game is unfair people get upset. Fun fact. Carebears get upset not because the game isn't fair, but because they're allowed to lose in the first place. Quote: Saying that people that get shaffed by the AFK cloaking problem should suck it up and live with it is the issue most people pro change in this thread are facing. You do need to suck it up and accept the fact that you are supposed to have uncertainty and risk in your gameplay, most of all if that gameplay is PvE of any kind, and extra especially PvE in nullsec. Quote: Its just hard for me to understand why anyone would like the idea of having a game mechanic around that directly causes this much rage, or be defending it by creating even more rage. It's hard for me to understand why anyone who complains about this mechanic thinks that they belong in 0.0 space in the first place. Oh, and I don't give a flying rat's ass about your feelings, or anyone else's. If you're enough of a child to "rage" about something like this in a videogame, then all you're doing is proving that you don't belong in EVE Online. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 14:42:13 - [231] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: I think all of us in this thread agree it should be changed, but disagree strongly on the methods of that change Not one thing about cloaking devices needs to be changed. Right now they are probably one of, if not the most balanced module concept this game has. You disappear from grid, but in exchange you cannot have any mechanical effect on it at all. It's more or less perfect. The only thing that needs to be changed here is the free, untouchable, instant source of intel that allows carebears to cry and whine about people in their system in the first place. The only thing that needs changed is local. No local, literally no effect from afk cloaking. The cloaked ship would have to actually be hunting you to have any effect whatsoever. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 15:11:40 - [232] - Quote Xcom wrote: Why is there no uncertainty in cloaking? There is. But obviously not as much as someone who is generating assets into the game world would entail, because the cloaked player derives absolutely zero mechanical benefit from it. There is a vast gulf of difference between being afk and cloaked, and actively gaining resources. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 15:16:14 - [233] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I will argue that any ship doing anything at all that affects another player in any way other than market transactions should not be as safe as a cloak currently makes it. It doesn't effect the other player at all. Their blatant, disgusting risk aversion might effect them, but then that's only because local allows them to determine the presence of the other player. Quote: Doesn't matter if that effect is imaginary, psychological It matters very much, since those two things aren't real, nor should your cowardice be permitted to dictate game balance in even the slightest way. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 15:32:47 - [234] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Seriously, still trolling? That's my line. Quote: You are completely wrong in any case. See the above. Quote: It's not just a null ratter issue. It's an entire game issue. No it's not. People rat in other areas all the time without issues from cloaked ships. Even numbers of other nullsec players. This isn't a nullsec issue so much as it is a carebear issue. But that's your typical M.O. anyway, constantly asking for more safety for the people who already have too much in the first place. Quote: Nothing at all of any use what ever should be possible while cloaked. Your screen should go dark, all windows but chat unresponsive. This is so petulant and childish that it's genuinely funny. No, you should not be locked out of the game entire while cloaked, because it is intended to be able to play while cloaked. They are intended to provide an advantage via an attack of opportunity to the player using it. I know you want them to be brokenly useless because you hate how they are working as intended, but what you want doesn't matter, and never will. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 16:00:35 - [235] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: What is hilarious is that this is the exact argument you would be making in your own trollish way if it was someone you wanted to shoot doing something under a cloak. No, I'm a real player, so I'd actually do something about it instead of crusading for CCP to nerf it. Or hey, since sometimes the right answer is to ignore it, I might even do nothing, rather than crying for CCP to do my job for me. Besides, you can't actually do anything besides move under a cloak anyway. It's not like they're actually obtaining any tangible, real benefit from it, as opposed to the ratter who very much is. Risk vs reward after all. The one who actually has a greater than zero benefit should have vastly more risk than the person who is not generating income or assets into the game world. Quote: You don't understand anything about balance, just childish trolling. Such projection. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 16:06:01 - [236] - Quote Xcom wrote: This is the issue, this right here. Benefit without risk. What a dishonest argument. Risk is not the only tradeoff that exists in this game, and this is especially true of cloaking devices and covert ops ships. Cry more that it's working as intended. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15679	Posted - 2016.01.09 16:30:56 - [237] - Quote Xcom wrote: Kaarous I didn't understand your last post. You mean cloaked ships are not exempt from risk in there operation? Don't be obtuse. What I meant is that "risk" is not the only tradeoff that exists in this game, most certainly not when it comes to ship and module balance, what's more. Cloaks have other tradeoffs for the benefit they provide. Meaning that your entire point is as invalid as it possibly could be. Not that this shouldn't be obvious to anyone not blinded by self interest anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15680	Posted - 2016.01.09 16:59:42 - [238] - Quote Xcom wrote: Thats the whole argument. The issue is that some people like myself think that the benefits are to great. And you're wrong. It's almost not possible to be more wrong, for that matter, as I mentioned above. Quote: Mostly because the operation of a cloak have to near zero risk when operated. The only tradeoffs are also negligible compared and easily circumnavigated. And now you're not just wrong, you're also enormously ignorant of how the game is supposed to work. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15681	Posted - 2016.01.09 17:06:58 - [239] - Quote Xcom wrote: Kaarous Its my opinion of the matter. Its not possible for my opinion on the matter to be wrong. It demonstrably is. Not all opinions are equal or of equal merit. You can have the opinion that the Moon Landing didn't happen, and that's really just you being wrong and trying to defend it by claiming subjectivity where subjectivity doesn't belong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15688	Posted - 2016.01.10 01:15:20 - [240] - Quote So Jerghul is now degenerating into vague MMO stereotypes racism? This thread delivers. Jerghul wrote: Changes to local being a decoupled topic that is entirely separate from afk cloaky camping. But global warming, alts, and your strange notions about Chinese people totally are on topic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15694	Posted - 2016.01.10 11:22:57 - [241] - Quote Xcom wrote: This mindset would be thrown out the window the second you disliked a feature too. This is a very funny sentence. See, because carebears are utterly incapable of intellectual honesty, they also assume that everyone else is as well. They cannot actually understand a non-hypocritical position. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15700	Posted - 2016.01.11 14:43:40 - [242] - Quote Xcom wrote: The AFK part of the cloaking is the product of broken mechanics. Cloaking itself needs a proper counter so going AFK wouldn't be possible. Your stating a complete lie as an emphatic doesn't make it any less of a lie. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15708	Posted - 2016.01.12 06:13:06 - [243] - Quote Xcom wrote: Its a loophole in the game mechanics adding a cyno on a cloaked ship, it has to be a massive oversight. Not only is it neither a loophole nor an oversight, it's fully intended. Quote: Some individuals think its funny attacking anyone who suggest a nerf to cloaks, somehow gotten this idea that its a carebare act. It is a carebear act, and you wouldn't recognize game balance if it decloaked and pointed you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15711	Posted - 2016.01.12 11:35:00 - [244] - Quote There is no issue. The patchwork semblance of one, however, is caused by rabid risk aversion and the unreasonable desire to be safe while engaged in PvE in nullsec space. And the root of those things is the instant, free, untouchable intel provided by local chat. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15713	Posted - 2016.01.12 15:07:12 - [245] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jerghul wrote: Teckos I would personally chose to jump freighter things to market. But you can fly them in any straw man that rocks your boat. Your backtracking is duly noted. And understandable. He's taken so many different and contradictory positions in this thread, he would need some pretty serious project management software to keep track of them all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15719	Posted - 2016.01.12 17:09:44 - [246] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Karous We have established there are many final solutions to the established multiple account entitlement that is afk cloaky camping question. The only thing we've established is that Bush the Elder was right, and winners don't use drugs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15730	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:44:38 - [247] - Quote Xcom wrote: [Such a game mechanic should then have a counter, it doesn't. You have the chicken and the egg mixed up, probably deliberately because you are dishonest. Cloaks are the counter to the free, instant, untouchable intel that is local. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15731	Posted - 2016.01.13 13:20:50 - [248] - Quote Xcom wrote: I'm honestly not sure if your trolling me or genuinely think I'm being dishonest. The latter. And the rest of your post proves that you didn't bother reading my post to begin with, which reinforces my claim of your dishonesty. I did not say local is the counter to cloaks. I said cloaks are the counter to local. Try actually reading it next time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15731	Posted - 2016.01.13 13:54:57 - [249] - Quote Xcom wrote: But we are still left with the issue that cloaks on themselves are unbalanced excluding local from the equation. First of all, you cannot exclude local from the equation, and even if you do, you get the example of wormholes, in which cloaks are not broken either. All roads lead to local on this one. Quote: But I believe that using a unbalanced feature to counter local isn't a good game balance. Were this premise true, cloaks would be monstrously broken in wormholes, which is anything but the case. In fact, we've had numerous former or current W-space residents, including myself, laughing at the carebears in this thread crying about cloaks. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15732	Posted - 2016.01.13 14:10:04 - [250] - Quote Jerghul wrote: The counter to afk cloaks Sure aren't your selfish, broken ideas that will never see the light of day. It starts with fixing your entitled attitude, by the way. You have no right whatsoever to be free of uncertainty in PvE gameplay. Ever. And that goes double for nullsec. The game isn't broken because you're bad at it. Deal with it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15734	Posted - 2016.01.13 16:55:54 - [251] - Quote Xcom wrote: I do think they are monstrously broken. The fact you can't hunt a cloaked ship is the broken nature of cloaks. You can hunt them. Yeesh, are we speaking different languages here, or did you just not read the rest of the thread? Dealing with cloaked ships has been spelled out several times already. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15735	Posted - 2016.01.13 16:59:06 - [252] - Quote Xcom wrote: You can't have the cake and eat it too. Cloaked ships get 100% safety after they activate there cloak. No, they don't. Unless you're trying to say that no one has ever been decloaked and killed after activating their cloak. If you are, by the way, let me know beforehand. Thanks to some lung damage, I have to take a deep breath before I laugh that hard. Quote: In return then you should also expect to have all moduals on your ship except for the cloak to go offline as you activate your cloak. That is exactly how it already works, numbskull, you cannot have any active modules besides a cloaking device active at the same time. And at least spell modules correctly, Jesus Christ it's like I'm arguing with a ten year old. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15735	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:34:51 - [253] - Quote Xcom wrote: And we are full circle again. Arguing with these 3 is just stupid. Insults and personal attacks is all they reframe to the second they don't have an answer. Clearly its pointless arguing as they seam to get something off of this. An answer to what? Your bullshit subjectivity that you demand be reflected in game balance? Or maybe the repeated lies your side keeps making with the false claim that cloaks make a player invincible? Or hey, maybe the blithe ignorance that cloaks are not a problem LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE GAME, but we're supposed to believe that they're broken because you don't feel safe afk'ing in an anom with an Ishtar? Cloaks are not broken just because a few carebears think they are. Cloaks are not broken because they make you feel unsafe. Cloaks are not broken because they allow a patient player to get the drop on you. They are literally intended to do precisely that. They are working as fully intended. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15735	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:49:31 - [254] - Quote Xcom wrote: And we are full circle again. Arguing with these 3 is just stupid. Insults and personal attacks is all they reframe to the second they don't have an answer. There is no "answer" to a problem that only exists in your imagination. Cloaks are not broken because you want to claim they are. You have absolutely no right to safety while enagaged in PvE, not now and not ever, and especially not in nullsec space. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15735	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:01:32 - [255] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Really? Please give even a general sense of how it's possible to hunt a ship using a cloak. You've asked this before, and been told how numerous times. And you have ignored them every time, petulantly crying about how any effort is unacceptable. So now I'm content to let you wallow in your ignorance. Go and actually read the rest of the thread. Quote: Every single action taken 'against' a cloaked ship is reactive. Good. The whole point of a cloaking device is to give initiative to the person using them. To force a reaction by people who would otherwise just blithely go on farming. Quote: Every single tactic used to destroy a ship intelligently using a cloak relies on pilot error and/or monumental luck. You can take out "using a cloak" and put in quite a few other things(hauling, for example), and it still applies. Kinda funny though, the cloaked player wouldn't even be in there if you actually had control of your in gates. But you don't, and you think you shouldn't have to. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15735	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:08:47 - [256] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Exactly. Though not in the way you were thinking. Yeah, actually having to do something, instead of just pushing a button for free safety like you want. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15735	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:10:40 - [257] - Quote Quote: However if the cloak isn't broken then any ship under an active cloak that can see the grid and use any ship function whatsoever is broken. No it's not. It's how cloaks are intended to work. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15736	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:19:11 - [258] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Free safety? You mean like that granted by an active cloak? No, I mean the utter nonsense that Jerghul keeps copy and pasting, where he wants the ability to turn gates off to people who aren't in his alliance so he can just farm away all day like it's a single player game, instead of a PvP sandbox. Almost like you all are just playing the wrong game. Quote: If it served a PvE function, you would be railing against cloaks with a passion. Wrong. You might not have any intellectual honesty, but that doesn't mean other people don't. Such projection. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15736	Posted - 2016.01.13 18:42:30 - [259] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Or it could be you that is playing the wrong game. Nope. You can tell by how I'm not the one here in this thread crusading to have cloaks broken so I can pretend it's a single player game. Quote: You heard the man. Delightful results :). I am going to laugh so hard when they just remove local without any compensation. Really, this is just like the freighter thread, where they cried for years and thought they would ever get a net buff to safety. The tears fed me for a month. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15737	Posted - 2016.01.13 19:02:41 - [260] - Quote Jerghul wrote: I am sure the Developers are giving the thought of making EvE seem completely depopulated all the consideration the thought merits. Yes, because wormholes are totally empty, right? Trying to hold the game's development hostage by claiming you'll quit if they do anything to upset your obscene farming is really quite pathetic. Your silly little niche is not the key to this game's survival, by any means at all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15771	Posted - 2016.01.14 12:09:26 - [261] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Except you are getting the benefit- safety. That's not a benefit in and of itself, unless they can do anything with it. Which they really can't. You can cry about d-scan or whatever else all you like, but they can derive no mechanical benefit or have a mechanical effect on basically anything while cloaked. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15773	Posted - 2016.01.14 18:20:48 - [262] - Quote Xcom wrote: Mike its pointless arguing with them. All they do is to take out sentences out of a post, attack you directly, call out names, tell you that your wrong and repeat the same dragged out argument over and over in a repetitive manner. They aren't here to try and improve the game for the sake of game balance or anything. Funny. I can the exact same thing about you, and ESPECIALLY about Mike. Neither of you care a whit about game balance, you just want something nerfed because you personally dislike it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15773	Posted - 2016.01.14 18:25:13 - [263] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The cloaked ship has the ability to perform functions that an enemy would consider objectionable and would want/need to interfere with them. Wrong again, liar. Everyone can use d-scan, and the ways around d-scan are the same for everybody. There isn't some magical game breaking exception here, like you're attempting to claim. Quote: Either reduce the safety to a non-absolute level that demands a similar amount of effort to stay safe as is put into countering them (fleets, constant vigil, etc) or else reduce their range of activity to match their safety. Neither. It's perfectly balanced right now, that's why you hate it so much, because you despise game balance with every fiber of your being. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15775	Posted - 2016.01.14 19:28:51 - [264] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Oh and if the pilot isn't at the computer, they can't do any of the stuff you just said, so are you against afk-cloaking or cloaks in general, because you are mixing things up here Well, if you have been paying attention for the last several months, and nigh unto 300 pages, you would know that I don't consider AFK to be the problem. It's a symptom. The problem is the available activity of the ship from the absolute safety of the cloak, which allows the pilot to remain a credible threat even AFK. Since he cannot be located even if he was on grid, much less at a secret safe, and he retains full mobility, the ability to acquire and relay detailed intel, and the ability to launch non-targeting attacks immediately upon decloaking he must be treated as an active threat at all times. Since the safety is inviolate, we should then look to balance by removing the potential danger and objectionable actions of ships employing a cloak. If an enemy is gathing detailed intel on you, you should be able to confront them. If they are moving to attack you should have opportunity to respond. If they compromise the security of space you wish to claim by carrying a cyno, you should be able to secure space if you are willing to put in the effort to do so. You want to be able to do stuff(tm), then you need to be vulnerable to others doing stuff(tm) to you. You can do stuff(tm) under a cloak, and thus you should either be huntable, or the stuff(tm) you can do should be limited to actions available while docked. You really should stop using the term absolute safety. You use it with out any qualifiers and that immediately invalidates your entire argument. Not like his argument is valid to begin with. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15777	Posted - 2016.01.14 20:03:20 - [265] - Quote Xcom wrote: Best way to fix the cloaking problem is to give it a form of counter. No counter is needed for something that isn't a problem to begin with. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15780	Posted - 2016.01.15 11:15:01 - [266] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: I do love though that "AFK cloaking" has degenerated into people just hating on cloaks in general. That's all it ever was. No matter what lies or flimsy justifications or smokescreens they spew. All they want is just one more nerf, to make PvE even more absurdly safe than it already is. It's not enough that their chosen form of "content" is basically completely free of risk, no, they want to be able to pretend like this multiplayer single shard PvP sandbox is a single player game when it's convenient for them. And cloaking devices break their bullshit illusion, so to salve that cognitive dissonance created between the reality of EVE and the lies they tell themselves, they deem it "broken" or "unfair", and cry bitter tears against it on the forums, hoping that CCP will once again cave in like they have so many times in the past, and nerf or functionally delete yet another perfectly balanced mechanic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15780	Posted - 2016.01.15 11:16:41 - [267] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: And no Teckos, your fozzie radio quote didn't say cloaks were balanced. The balance is handwaved because the effect on prey professions is more important than balance. Not "more important than balance". That IS balance. And that's why you hate it so much. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15781	Posted - 2016.01.15 11:30:43 - [268] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Constant, active effort. Heck I thought you considered staying awake at all to be a high bar of effort, Mike? You said as much several times already. I mean, if that's okay for PvE players in your eyes, it damn sure should be okay for the cloaked player. Unless you're a colossal dishonest hypocrite, anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15781	Posted - 2016.01.15 11:33:47 - [269] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: So what? The issue isn't local. It's the only issue at all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15795	Posted - 2016.01.15 15:41:26 - [270] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Does not matter if they are AFK or not. AFK cloaking is a symptom of a bigger problem. Yeah, and that problem is local. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15798	Posted - 2016.01.15 22:29:15 - [271] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: AFK cloaking is a symptom. Of the neverending cowardice of carebears. Quote: As the safety is in fact higher than that offered by a station You are the biggest liar in the history of this forum, even if not in your absurdly dishonest post history, but just for this one sentence alone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15802	Posted - 2016.01.16 16:02:21 - [272] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Changing cloak mechanics is to limit the effects of afk cloaky camping on a number of players far larger than those that habitually use cloaked ships. Yeah, buffing their safety. Which is in and of itself completely unacceptable, even if the rest of your arguments weren't deeply flawed, which they are. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15802	Posted - 2016.01.16 17:25:41 - [273] - Quote Jerghul wrote: It may not in fact be completely unacceptable. In fact, it is. Nullsec is not supposed to be safe. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15803	Posted - 2016.01.16 17:49:22 - [274] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Nothing is safe when undocked anywhere in EvE except afk cloaky camping Wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15803	Posted - 2016.01.16 18:02:43 - [275] - Quote Jerghul wrote: No, you are wrong. I'm not the one claiming cloaking devices are invincible. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15805	Posted - 2016.01.16 18:50:30 - [276] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Nothing is safe in EvE undocked save AFK cloaky camping. Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less wrong. Something you and Mike really ought to learn. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15805	Posted - 2016.01.17 01:16:10 - [277] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Jerghul wrote: No, you are wrong. I'm not the one claiming cloaking devices are invincible. Still waiting on that method for hunting a cloaked ship in system.... I'm still waiting for any proof at all of your ludicrous claims. Cloaked ships die all the time, you can look at the killboards for that. But if you're too dumb to figure out how to bait out a cloaker in your system, you honestly don't belong in nullsec, or EVE Online for that matter. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15807	Posted - 2016.01.17 12:01:22 - [278] - Quote Jerghul wrote: I am still waiting for proof for your ludicrous claims You've had them already. Cloaked ships die, in fact they're all over the killboards. You claim they are invincible. They very obviously are not. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15816	Posted - 2016.01.18 17:04:19 - [279] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Mags You are still not grasping implicit threat. There's nothing to grasp, because it's completely made up. It exists only in the minds of you and Mike and a few other carebear cowards. A cloaked player cannot mechanically effect you at all. Only your cowardice does that. Delete local. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15820	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:17:33 - [280] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Karous Yah, like I said. The Royal Navy of wwii needed to HTFU. Or to remain on topic: Delete AFK CLOAKY CAMPING. Why would they need to delete an imaginary problem? Nothing CCP will ever do will make you less of a coward, you can only fix that yourself. I say that CCP needs to force people like you to accept uncertainty in your gameplay, or else realize that you don't belong in nullsec. Delete local. Fix the real problem, not the made up smokescreen for more safety. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15821	Posted - 2016.01.18 21:04:30 - [281] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You can take your elephants and go bugger them till you both bleed. I don't care. The issue isn't about local. Your delicious petulance aside, local is the only thing this is about. Quote: Either the safety of the cloak needs adjusted, or the range of activity available while using one. They have none. They can D-scan and they can move, that's it. Cry more. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15823	Posted - 2016.01.18 21:52:01 - [282] - Quote Jerghul wrote: Logging on seems to be the by far most common way for an afk cloaky camper to enter a system. I suppose he just logged right in to get there in the first place. Not like he must have came in via a wormhole or a gate or somewhere else totally preventable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15825	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:42:14 - [283] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: You can force them into transit or otherwise neutralise them without CCP holding your hands. Try playing the game youre talking about more, less bad armchair theory crafting about things you know next to nothing about. But Morringan, if he doesn't try and dictate balance from a position of complete and utter ignorance, he'd basically never post at all. Oh... "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15836	Posted - 2016.01.19 21:28:39 - [284] - Quote Cidanel Afuran wrote: Do you play the same game I do? Neither of them do. See, carebears are creatures of projection, so they think their pipe dream bullshit version of EVE Online is the truth. It's why they get so upset when reality intrudes on their childish pretentions, and why they demand CCP to change the game according to their self delusions. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15851	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:46:28 - [285] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: At least there won't be once it's possible to find cloaked ships with whatever mechanism makes that possible. Pixie dust? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15862	Posted - 2016.01.22 13:48:35 - [286] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: " Even though I can try"..... Except you can't try to stop them. Nothing and no one can affect a ship under a cloak unless it's flown stupidly. You keep repeating this lie. Tell me, how does one jump a gate "intelligently"? Don't dare say scout because the cov ops is the scout. Unless your scouts have scouts. And let us not forget the non covert cloaks who can only hide once safed up. And crying that you can't make them jump is beyond ridiculous. Tell me, how good is their intel when they are not in the same system as you? If you jump system you do one of two things - eviscerate their intel or force their hand into letting you have a shot at killing them, if you are skilled enough and make no mistake, decloaking is a skill, it is not luck. But Morrigan, he shouldn't have to do even the tiniest thing to defend himself such as move one system over. That amount of effort is "unreasonable" compared to how hard he has to work to stay awake after all. He should be able to push a button and ruin the entire intended purpose of cloaks, because he can't be asked to lift a finger in his own defense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15864	Posted - 2016.01.24 12:53:42 - [287] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Local is 100% accurate, and it's 99% useless. Quoting for posterity, because I can't believe he actually said this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15865	Posted - 2016.01.24 14:15:06 - [288] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: On it's own, yes.. it is. You can dishonestly try to minimize the impact of local, but it's absolutely untrue. It is one of the most powerful tools in this game, and what's more it's instant, free, infallible and untouchable. And you won't have it for long, I suspect. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15868	Posted - 2016.01.24 23:53:15 - [289] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Once again... That info isn't part of local. That info absolutely is part of local, it's just sorted and organized by the third party tool. Try again. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15881	Posted - 2016.01.25 14:16:14 - [290] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Regardless, that lowest level of intel And the most critical. "are there other people here?" is the fundamental pillar of intel. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15884	Posted - 2016.01.25 15:17:43 - [291] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: As Kaarous notes it is the most critical piece of intel. If we are going to do something in a given system, knowing if the enemy is there or not is Question Number One. To expound upon this. The sheer value of intel from local is not simply in being able to answer the question "are there other people here?", but in large part by being able to definitively say that there are not. Knowing for a surety that there aren't other people around is quite simply one of, if not the most powerful tool available in this game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15891	Posted - 2016.01.25 18:46:31 - [292] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: All of which is completely beside the point of acquiring detailed info under a cloak at little to no risk being too much power for the risk of flying a cloaked ship Well you've moved your goalposts once again. I wonder what your "point" will be next week. Or maybe it's that you're so dishonest that you will say anything to justify one more nerf. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15892	Posted - 2016.01.25 20:15:52 - [293] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: No moved goal posts. Aside from it being completely and utterly different from the many other positions you took in the thread. You keep changing your argument over and over again, with nothing even resembling consistency. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15892	Posted - 2016.01.25 20:25:59 - [294] - Quote "Gais, local has no value, but please please pretty please don't take it away!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15937	Posted - 2016.01.27 18:32:08 - [295] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: I am not incoherent Quote: Either remove anything not available in a station until after the target delay, or adjust the safety to represent a ship in space rather than a ship in dock. No to both. Cloaks are fine, deal with it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15986	Posted - 2016.01.29 18:18:29 - [296] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: But cloaks are ok because reasons Cloaks are indeed fine. But it's not "reasons", it's for a number of legitimate reasons that you have already had detailed in this thread for you repeatedly. But in the depths of your self absorption and dishonesty, you didn't even listen. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15990	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:12:12 - [297] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You know what you get with the cloak? That perfect safety. It's not perfect safety, liar. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15991	Posted - 2016.01.30 12:27:21 - [298] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I still think players need a counter to AFK cloakers to prevent them sitting in a system for hours on end. There are several already. Leave the system, for starters. Then camp the out gate. He is either neutralized or eventually dead. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 15991	Posted - 2016.01.30 16:23:49 - [299] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Hey, let's stop playing the game and doing activities we enjoy, abandon the space to the enemy, then sit and do nothing but stare at eachother on the outgate for hours.... Of course. That's what you get for letting him in to begin with. You allowed him to enter by not defending your in gates, so now you have to deal with him. It's not like you're doing anything worthwhile to begin with if you only have just the one system. Quote: Fun and riveting gameplay there, crapstain. Reported. Learn to be civil for once. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 16119	Posted - 2016.02.01 19:12:59 - [300] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: There is a great deal wrong with cloaks. So far, you've failed to prove that there is anything whatsoever wrong with cloaks, you've just repeatedly expressed that your personal dislike of them should result in them being completely gutted as a mechanic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 16137	Posted - 2016.02.02 18:46:10 - [301] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Even Karrous's dig about no one being on gate when he got in... So somehow every gate and wormhole in space needs a hellcamp 23.5/7 to keep people from taking up residence in space I have decided to defend, no going to bed for me and everyone I know. So you're admitting that because you think you can't defend your space, you don't try. Makes sense, given what I know of you. I'd be surprised if you even bother to bubble your gates. You just let somebody in, then cry that they're allowed to be there. Which definitely fits your posting. So anyway, that isn't what I was saying, but I was suggesting that wormhole players make this work not only with randomly appearing gates, but also no local. So in essence, you just suck. And you're trying to have the game mechanics changed to cover your extreme suckage. Quote: It does not matter what part of space you are in... Cloaks are too safe for what they allow. They allow movement and d-scan, and disallow activation of any module. That's perfectly balanced. Quote: That they are the way they are is no excuse to leave them that way. Conversely, your cacophony of self absorbed lies is no reason to change one single about cloaks. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 16138	Posted - 2016.02.02 19:17:21 - [302] - Quote Cidanel Afuran wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So anyway, that isn't what I was saying, but I was suggesting that wormhole players make this work not only with randomly appearing gates, but also no local. I'm by no stretch of the imagination an elite player. I'm solidly average. That being said, living in WH space I have lost exactly zero ships (in non-looking for battles/committing the field, PvP-ing) in over four months. Maybe some of us use the existing mechanics? See, now consider that Mike has spent weeks and weeks pouring out tears in this thread. Then imagine just how much he must suck at EVE Online to need a safety blanket like he's been asking for. You know, the several pages where he was petulantly claiming that cloaked players should have their screen turn black and be cut off from the game as a whole? Butthurt like that only comes from inability to accept risk and inability to deal with loss. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 16139	Posted - 2016.02.02 20:36:58 - [303] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: Even Karrous's dig about no one being on gate when he got in... So somehow every gate and wormhole in space needs a hellcamp 23.5/7 to keep people from taking up residence in space I have decided to defend, no going to bed for me and everyone I know. No Mike, what he is saying is that unless you are going to take such heroic efforts people are going to come into your space. And it is designed this way on purpose. So either you accept that....or maybe consider another game, or at the very least relocate to HS. A wild Real Player appeared! "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

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